What is Schema Markup?

What is Schema Markup?

Schema, in simple terms, is code added to your website to help the search engines understand your content in a more clear and concise manner and can help you get those featured snippets that appear at the top of the search results too as well as the knowledge graph.

This is not something new — Schema has been around for many years. In recent years you have no doubt heard more people talking about Schema Markup and that they have to manually add code to markup the pages or blog posts on they website.

Schema has evolved though and doesn’t have to be as hard as some of these guys make it out to be and in my next podcast I have Martha Van Berkel from Canada who owns www.schemaapp.com and this basically allows you to add a plugin to your website that will let you to easily add schema to your website. It also connects you to www.schemaapp.com so it’s not just a plugin that adds generic Schema, this is the real deal for those looking for an easy option when it comes to Schema.

We find out more from Martha on the podcast where I was fortunate enough to be able to ask her about the ins and outs of how the tool works and how it can benefit us.


The transcribed version will be below

C: So welcome to today’s podcast, where I’m joined by Martha van Berkel. Many of you may already know Martha. She is a regular at conferences. She’s all over the place. Including Brighton SEO. You spoke at the last Brighton event, is that right, Martha?

M: I did. Yeah I got to talk about connected schema. It was fun.

C: I’m sure you need no introduction, but for anyone who doesn’t know you, Martha, can you tell us a bit about yourself and what you do?

About Martha Van Berkel

C: Sure. So I am the CEO of Schema app. And we do schema markup pretty much every day all day. We have tools that help them do it at scale. So our whole goal is to help SEOs get the job done faster without IT. So that they can focus on doing the more fun stuff around strategy and other pieces. And prior to being an entrepreneur and starting this company, I worked at Cisco for 14 years. I did product management and strategy and all kinds of fun things there.

C: Interesting. So obviously the main thing that you’re doing currently and which is peaking everyone’s interests at the moment is Schema. And it’s something you’ve been doing since 2014 you mentioned. For people like me who are quite lazy, I just want you blow forth about yours and stuff like that. I don’t want to think about schema. So obviously you’ve got the schema app which is your solution to this. So what is involved? What does this do to cut time? How much time are we saving with the schema app?

M: Sure. Why don’t we start by making sure… I’ll talk about what is schema markup also.

Schema Markup Process

M: Just so everyone’s on the same page. And then let’s talk about the schema markup process. And then I can highlight how we help solve that. So first of all, schema markup also is based on this vocabulary called schema.org which is basically the language of a search engine. So you’re just translating English to French or translating from English to schema markup so that the search engines can understand the content.

M: So that’s like the basis of it. And it is quite technical like it’s code that you have to write in order to make that happen. And so the process that SEOs go around and actually we find that like half of the SEOs go through this process and half of them don’t. They sort of just get it done and then forget about it. But the first one is strategy.

M: So that’s like asking the question of what should you optimize and why? And that’s probably like one of my favourite things to talk about. We actually have a pretty detailed blog and webinar on how to build a schema markup strategy for any type of website.

M: And it sort of is this marriage between what’s important for the business and then also what kind of features you can in Google. And so it’s two things together. Whereas most SEOs right now just hunt those features in Google, but then they’re missing out on actually articulating how it connects to the business. And so we really always want to kind of ground it in that business. So once you know what you want to optimize, then you actually have to do the optimization, which we call authoring.

M: So this is like creating the code. And so this is like one of the biggest pain points because even if you’re a technical SEO, you might not write Jason LD or you might not know Java script. And if you’re a developer, you might not know actually skipping out Oregon. How it relates. And it’s a semantic technology language. So semantic technology is what Google uses to connect the dots.

M: So often when I introduce myself, I put a bubble of Martha in the middle and then I’m like, “Oh, I’m an alumni of Cisco. I’m the founder of schema app.” And then I talk about how my car, my Austin-Healey Sprite was in a movie that, Kevin Bacon directed. And so Kevin Bacon used to drive my car and therefore now I’m connected to Kevin Bacon by three degrees, which makes you a two degrees from Kevin Bacon.

Using Schema to connect the dots

M: And why I use that example is that that connecting the dots is actually what schema markup is allowing you to do. So Google can make those inferences or kind of answer questions. And so when you’re doing the authoring, you want to make sure that you’re actually creating the schema markup properly and connecting those dots between other things on your website. And it’s really painful from a code perspective.

M: It’s painful than to also deploy it on the website. And so that’s what schema app does. My co-founder was basically like, why am I writing schema markup? I can actually create it and produce it way faster with a machine or with automation. And then because we’re a semantic tech company, we actually teach you how to do that deep connection.

Deploying Schema via Google Tag Manager or Plugins?

M: And so not only do you not have to write the code, you also can learn how to do it really, really properly. And we’re finding our clients that do it really properly get even better results in search engines. And then the deployment is the other piece. So the big pain in the butt is that you have to work with IT to deploy it. And often you would write down the code you want them to get done, and then how to do it.

M: And then IT screws it up, over and over and over again. And if you’re in a larger organization, that time becomes even worse. And also, I think developers just aren’t skilled in this space, right? It’s actually like, learn how to do development and Jason LD and you’ll have lots of work, especially this year. So we automate that process through deploying it, through GTM. Google Tag Manager, GTM insight etc. You name it. Or through one of our add-ons or plugins.

M: So that way, we basically don’t want to talk to IT. And the whole reason we did this is that I spent too long at Cisco waiting for them to do stuff. And I get like really, really, really impatient. You know, me as a nice person, Greg. But when I’m not happy, it’s like, “Just get this shit done. Come on already!”

M: And so part of the basis of the value we offer is that, talk to IT once. Get that tag live. Or get our JavaScript on the site and then we can do it dynamically. Now there’s been a lot of chat about don’t do schema markup on Google tag manager. Yeah, don’t do bad Java script that’s not optimized and that you don’t know what you’re doing through tag managers. But if you’re like us and been doing it since 2014, our big clients like SAP wouldn’t put up with us not having it optimized and really working well.

M: So we see it working really, really well if you do it properly. And then our whole other value prop at the end of the process is measurement. So we need to actually measure what the impact is and I said this is a big focus of ours. This year we’re going to have an executive dashboard kind of showing you what the impact of your schema markup is.

M: And then we also have how the measurement then influences strategy. Because a lot of schema markup can be used to influence what’s on the content on the page. Because the search engines basically told you what they want to know about each topic. So you can backwards engineer that.

M: So that’s what we do and we do through high tech support. We know this stuff inside and out. So you can really have confidence when you work with us. That it will be done right.

C: Yeah. Obviously plays a massive part in ASU, which is obviously what a lot of the audience are going to be coming from. But I think as you see whether these people are skilled enough to be able to do it themselves or have to get your outsource or get the IT department to do it or whatever it may be, that’s just a big pain in the ass. So you’re a solution. How easy… What skills would dominate me for example. Who I can blog. I can make videos. I can talk about SEO, and all of that kind of stuff. JSON I have no bloody clue. And it’s not a skill that I possess.

Automate Schema Markup

M: Yeah. So we take away all of it. The complication of it, we automate it. And now there are like plugins out there for the very basic stuff. So we even have like the structured data schema app plugin for WordPress. It’s free. It was the first thing we actually brought out and like 2015 or 2016 is when we published that one. And it does your blog post thing.

M: You can actually control if you want it to be a blog post or an article or a news articles. So it gives you proper schema markup. It’ll pull in YouTube videos automatically. And allows you also to do very basic organization markup. And then that connects with our platform to do anything else. Now there is still… To use our tools and actually to do skin markup anywhere, you still need to understand this whole area of schema.org and it’s not easy.

C: I joke that, like the vocabulary, if you go to schema.org, kind of reads like a foreign diction. Like a language dictionary no matter what language you speak.

M: And it’s because it was written by a bunch of developers. And so we’ve actually built a ton of training to help people understand the basics of it. And so one of our passions is how do we help educate the market about the benefits? About how to do a strategy?

M: So we actually have a ton of resources on our website to sort of help people learn these basics. And, and I would say like the first thing we want people to learn is that strategy piece, right? So you as a strategist, don’t need to know how to do this schema markup, but you should understand what kind of content you want to optimize.

M: So if it’s your blog and you have some tutorials. So they’re more like how to’s. You have some that are more FAQs. Some that are more generic blog postings. We want to understand what are those type of content play and what’s more important and how do you prioritize those? And then the good news is that there are some people, and SEOs that have been doing this with us for a while. So I’d say like the market’s getting better at understanding the elements of it.

M: But I think your point about you don’t know if it’s done right is actually a really big problem. And actually we spend a lot of time doing our sales cycles. So we do consultative selling. So I actually spend a lot of time… Just this morning I was reviewing websites and looking at their competitors to say like, “Hey this is how you can do it better.” Or like, “You’re doing a great job. There’s this piece that you can do a bit better, but maybe wait a little bit until you really need to do that incremental piece.”

Schema Tutorials

M: So we’re going to work really hard this year to teach the market and our customers to know a bit more about that. And sort of do these tutorials and webinars on how do we help people understand these basics of it. But I think it’s a big risk today, but maybe a business opportunity for me, Craig. Where we sort of see it. And then we are thinking of building certification.

M: So where we can actually put people through a Bootcamp. Like today, to onboard anybody who works with us. They have to know schema.org and schema markup. Anyone who’s going to answer the phone and answer questions, including our development team, our sales team, our marketing team, our customer success team.

M: And so we’ve actually gotten to a point where within a month we can have them doing accurate consulting using our tools. And so what we’re going to try to do is break that down into training modules to teach SEOs how to do it properly. And then build in on how to use our tools. So then becomes lead-gen for us. But then sort of be able to certify people that we’ve reviewed their markup, we’ve seen examples of their work and that we’re confident that they can actually go ahead and do that work. So that’s on our plans for this year.

C: Yeah. It all sounds very interesting. And obviously looking at the… Can I place it off as well? I think for someone with a very small website, 50 pounds a month, for up to 1000 unique pages is…

M: Traceable. We built it originally for SMBs. Right? So we haven’t… We do a lot of work with enterprise now, but because we supported small, medium-size businesses to start, that’s still there. I think the other part that’s really important to note, on Friday John Mueller during his office hours, talked about structured data. And he said that… he sort of reiterated that they’re going to continue to invest in new features this coming year. But he also talked about they’re getting more complicated.

M: So again, music to my ears. But what was also really interesting is that he also reiterated what we heard at Google IO last year in May. So Google IO, big Google conference, talked about how if you optimize your content once with structure data that it would then sort of ready that content to be found. And they use the word “Across different surfaces and moments.”

M: And the idea of surfaces was like voice search, voice assistance. It was talking about different platforms. So I always think of the internet of things, like all our cars connected. Your watches connected. Your nest is connected. And so he reiterated on Friday that it’s going to get more complicated.

M: The requirements that Google has in order to do, I loved it, fancy features across these different devices. And he named Google Assistant specifically. So I thought that was really interesting. Because other than speakable, which is one of the futures, which is only really for news where you can identify pretty much like a sentence or two within the news article that you want them to use in voice if they refer or answer a question.

M: We haven’t really seen a whole lot else sort of called out specifically for Google Assistant. So I think it’ll be interesting to see sort of how the requirements evolve, but it’s going to get more complicated. So if you’re like hesitating to start learning about this, even at a strategy level.

C: I would say like you got to do that this year.

M: Join the party. We’ve been doing it for a long time. But it’s time to at least invest in understanding how this plays into your SEO strategy and then find the right partners and tools to make get it done.

C: Yeah. But I think for me that seems a more feasible option as to obviously understand and then find the tools or optimation that helps eliminate all the crap. I was like, “No way. I’m not doing this. It’s just hard work.” And I think I’ve already got your free app on the website and stuff.

C: But as something we should all be doing today on our websites and keep up to date with what so be it in the week. Google is looking at your website and everything else. It’s no come to this stage where people have to not just think about it, they have to take action or you’re going to delay paying, because as you see people, I’ve talked a bit about it and they still don’t really understand the bit. You’ve been doing this since 2014 it’s not as if it’s something…

M: And even for our smallest accounts, we do an onboarding call with you. Where we’ll do like a half-hour consulting with you, and then we provide email support with all of our account, where you can ask any schema.org question or any tool question.

M: Because we know it’s complicated and we’ve been growing really fast and so some of our videos are on our old editor and not on our new editor. So we’re working on sort of updating all our content. But it’s… We’re friendly Canadians who want to answer questions and help you sort of learn how it gets done. But we’ve seen… Craig, it’s been really crazy since January.

M: So Google made all these announcements in December, right? Like a webmaster, the webmaster conference, they did mountain view. Structure data was like one of the top topics across every presentation, which we’ve never heard this, right?

M: And then for the first time ever, schema markup instructor Dane’s being named in like the top things to do in 2020 from an SEO perspective. I’m getting quoted left, right and centre. It’s hilarious. And, SEO Moz just did their whiteboard Friday, I think just this past Friday and called out that, structured data was number two on their list, which they haven’t really sorted of done a ton. Sort of advocate. So we’re really seeing it across the board.

M; And then we’ve done two webinars this month and I still run in startup mode, right? Where I’m like, “We’re just going to do this.” So we did a webinar in like a week’s notice. Got 200 registrants on health schema markup and almost a hundred people attend. And then the following week we did an introduction to structured data.

M: We had 1200 people sign up for the webinar. So I’m seeing the market really accelerate. So again, even if you don’t want to do it to learn, your competitors are going to start doing this. We have never seen it this crazy in the market ever before. So it’s going to become… It’s not any more a nice to have, I would say, it’s like a must do.

C: Yeah. Oh I feel the same about it. I’ve got meetings and stuff that are the best.

C: Learn a little bit off it. They’ll put up… They’ve got a featured snippet or whatever for the jaw, I think. They assured me that even the kind of, I’m not going to say dumbest of guys, but even these guys that are just joking about on those are starting to look into it and take it serious or something. I’m always at the party with these things.

C: I know it sounds funny. I feel like if you think of adoption curves of things, we saw a lot of the early adopters, late 2017 and 2018 kind of really get into the robust stuff. And then I would say we’re still in the early adopters mainstream where people are like, “There’s too much news about this in the market.” But it’s, it’s an exciting time because it’s also something you really control. So I think this is the other piece that I really like about structured data, and the recent announcement around the deduplication of featured snippets versus, rich results I think is really interesting. Because featured snippets, so this is like the answer box, right? Is now, you know we used to call it result zero but now it’s result number one. But the behavior of people to click on it is different, right? Than sort of, I’ll say, like the normal regular results.

M: Yes.

C: And it’s less clear from Google, how they pick that featured snippet. Right?

M: Yes.

C: So I always like referring to Bill Slawski’s work, although my brain kind of explodes when I try to read some of his blogs about Google patents. But there was a patent he read out. Oh, I think it was last spring. So it was a long time ago. Which tends to happen, right? Like the patent goes in. But it was talking about structured data influences the featured snippet, but it’s only one factor amongst many.

M: Yes.

C: So it’s like structured and unstructured information that they’re looking at. So it’s still relatively vague, although Ellen Beasley and others have done some research on how to actually, really write your content for answering those questions. And then there’s really interesting information and I’ve been trying to catch up on the latest stuff around zero click. Do people click on it? Do they see it as a paid ad? How is behavior changing? And Lily Ray recently kind of showcased something that, I think she’s writing it on Moz. But how the different ages and generations actually act differently without a featured snippet.

M: Yeah.

C: My big takeaway is that we don’t have a lot of control over that, and we don’t have a lot of transparency from Google on how we achieve that. However, with the structure data-rich results we do. They’re very transparent on what you need in your content as well as what you need in your structured data in order to be able to get that rich result.

C: Now you still have to do wholesome SEO stuff that you have to get done. So it’s interesting, I think for me that’s big change on, should you have different content that tries to get that featured snippet and then is it a different URL, right? So you don’t hit the duplication that you know you’re going to get the rich result for.

C: Because to me the control factor with structured data’s really great. Right? And then at this point, especially in Europe with GDPR, there’s also, I think, who’s reusing that information? And at some point, will we have to license that information out to these different consumers? Structured data gives you those controls. And I’m a strategist, so I like to think of where’s this going to go in the future? With featured snippets and stuff, it’s still a lot of playing with things, whereas structured data, you have that control. And there is causality.

C: If you do the structured data well and you have the right content and good SEO, you should get that result.

Is using the Schema App easy?

C: I’m no big schema expert in any way when we sign up to your platform and how easy is this for somebody like me to implement? Is it plugin cleanly? Or do I…

M: It’s still a little hard.

C: Obviously nothing in life comes that easy and you can’t expect to plug and play and that does it all for you. And you’ve obviously got to input certain bits of data, but you’ve obviously got your own burden. Say the things I take it that these people would help you just fully understand what should go weird and when.

M: Correct. Yeah. And we have a lot of videos to guide you on how to do the different pieces. So like the tool, like the WordPress step is really simple when you get into our editor, which is like a form to fill out.

M: But there are some things that like how we want you to connect things that are important. So we actually just released a video called “Start here.”

M: Which sort of explains the nuances around schema.org and structured data and why we do things the way we do. And I guess the other piece, depending on the type of content you want, it could be that a Yoast plugin is the right fit, right?

M: So if you just need blogs, you just need how to, or FAQ and local business, the Yoast plugin covers a lot of that.

M: And so I don’t like ever sending business to other people, but the one thing we do is, we want to make sure it’s the right fit, right? Why do more work than you have to?

M: So what we find though is that a lot of those plugins are really limited. Like this morning, I was having a conversation with a financial website and they actually talk about different loans on their site. And they have all the different information about the loans. He can’t use a plugin because he’s using the finance extension, he needs to talk about loans. We actually like to get the rich result. We might do it alone as a product with a rating. So we’ll do some more advanced things. And so he was like, “I need you guys to just set it up and use your tools and we’ll just pay for it in order to get that done.”

M: So we do manage services to help people who have that specialty work. But I guess that’s why the strategy piece is the first piece that we do. And actually in that webinar and document, we actually say what’s the feasibility? Because let’s say you have a Shopify site. Our Shopify plugin does 95% of it. And then if you actually set up your onboarding call, we’ll help you set up the organization and contact stuff and then you’re done. Right? It does the blogs, the carrier. So part of it is like starting with that strategy piece to then ask the question of, how do we make this be as easy as possible?

C: Yeah. That’s interesting and obviously you said for anyone who just can’t be bothered, you’d do it.

M: We just changed our line on our front page because it was so funny that John Mueller was talking about the complexity getting big. And we had literally drafted our new homepage to say schema markup’s complex. Your website’s unique. We can help. And so I was like, “Oh my God! We got to get that up now. We just got to really put that on there.”

C: But what I want to ask more about is obviously the health checks, and stuff like that you’ve got on in here. What are the health checks that you’re doing?

M: Yeah, so we, we have a crawler that will basically go across the site and then our pro Kansas up to 10000 pages and we’ll actually look to see what schema markup’s there. And it will then tell us if it’s a product, does it have the required and recommended… And then we’re actually starting to build our own rules to say what are some additional things that are opportunities within it. The one thing in the crawl doesn’t do today is that it doesn’t actually gauge, is the page actually about that thing?

M: And so that’s actually what we’re working on. How do we actually not just understand is the code right and healthy, but does it actually match the content? One of the common mistakes that people do is they put organization markup on every single page.

M: Or local business markup on every single page. And then, the whole idea of schema markup is to identify what the page is about. And so no one actually knows which page is talking about the company because they’re all talking about the company.

M: And so those are the type of things that we’re going to start building logic into that crawler. So we tend to do our crawler to say what’s there. If we see like a thousand organizations, we can kind of gauge what that is. But we’ll be maturing that in order to be able to use it truly as an audit. In order to say not just what markup’s there and is that markup healthy, but does it actually align to the content? So that’s part of the natural language processing AI work that we’re doing to gauge what is the page about?

M: Because one of the key challenges for a new person. So Craig, if you’re wondering. It’s like, “What the hell should I optimize this with?” Right? It’s a hard question.

M: And so we always joke that I think my latest slide has like the thinker. It’s like “What is this thing?” Let’s have a philosophical conversation about the content on your page. And so if we could automate some of that so that we’re like, “Oh, we think it’s… It looks like you have questions and answers.” I think it’s a FAQ page and then we can actually guide you through that and take away those hard decision points that someone who’s not doing this everyday doesn’t understand. So these are a lot of the things that we’re trying to build in. With any kind of crawler or audit, it can always get better.

M: The competitive crawl, same thing. But we tend to use that with input than with our brain to go and sort of have a look at as sort of what’s there.

C: But what’s the competitive crawl into health check and stuff? Do we then use that to fix it? Or the question I was asking was is it something me, as a user, gets?

M: Actionable? Yeah, you do.

M: No, we share it with them. No, it’s in the application. So it would actually if you use it, it would run weekly on your site. Because we actually also Google search console used to have their structured data report that would show your structured data over time of any type of structured data. And they took it out, which really we were super bummed about because it was a really great way to show that you’re making progress and adding more structured data. So we actually built our own version of it. So it uses our crawler and health checks to then say like Oh where are we singing over time, how it’s improving. And then we’ll actually also show how the health of the site’s improving. And so this is sort of our first foray into sort of analytics and helping you understand is it making progress? Is it adding value?

M: I think there’s some actionable pieces that we can put in for a sort of less skilled users or not advanced users. And so our mission is to try to figure out how we do that. So one of the things that we’ve talked about is a recommendations report.

C: So that’s actually kind of like in Sem rush or Moz and so forth. Where they’re like “Here are the top three things that you could do to make it better.”

M: So we’re going to start building that into there as well.

M: Yeah. Though as a CEO, I think that kind of stuff appeals more to me when you work to see audits and then you can figure out from there and implementing that as a C. I’ve never used your to. My friends talk about and the previous things that were spoken, I’m just like, she does something to do with schema. I have to…

M: It’s for sure. We call it like a professional tool. Right? Because right now the only tool out there that you can also like save your work. Because with structured data, part of it’s like, Oh you get it done. But then someone changes the website. They change the layout. They add different content. You actually need to manage the structure data.

C: And this is actually one of the kind of pains with IT. Actually someone was just telling me this week. They were like, “Our sites are good for eight months and then someone goes and breaks something and then I have to wait another three and a half, four months in order to get IT to fix it.” And so our whole idea is like, Oh you noticed a change or we notice a change. You go in, you literally change it in the forum. Click save. It deploys. You’re done. You go drink more beer or coffee. Right?

M: Our intention is, you can actually react really fast. One of our first clients actually had a Google penalty for spammy schema markup. So this is like usually where we see that the kind of type of penalties and usually run ratings actually or price where you are kind of putting stuff in the schema markup that’s not there.

M: We were able to jump in there and with less than two weeks I get that new markup up, have it fixed. We basically had them focus on just removing their bad markup that their dev team had created. So these are the type of things that… Like that speed and agility. And again, just getting stuff done. And it’s not like SEOs are just sitting around being like, “Oh! Today I’m going to drink tea and think about what I’m going to do for my website.” No. We have a long list of things to get done. And so we just like helping people get it done.

C: Yeah. I see. Very interesting, and obviously look forward to seeing the other stuff being implemented as well. Say something that everyone has to teach and deal with in 2020 make it your year today.

M: Make it on your list. Or at least to learn, right? Get in there and learn something. And we have the entire vocabulary, so like we’re super nerds, right? So when schema.org gets updated and last year it got updated, I think it was six or seven times, which we’ve never seen. And this is sort of like the definition of things. And so something us nerds do is, we’ll actually go into the conversations of the people who are actually working on schema.org and we’ll see a Googler has suggested they add something and then we actually go test it and it hasn’t actually been added, but it’s actually working in all the structured data testing tools. So we sometimes are kind of keeping an eye on what’s coming downstream. We’re seeing a ton of stuff around health right now.

M: And then also hospitality, but there’s no hotels schema markup features today. Although we see a ton of stuff in search results. And then health, like the Google health announcement. We know that they’re kind of starting to double down. So we often watch what’s going into the vocabulary. But if it’s in pending or about to be published or is published, like we have it in our tools like within a day. So again, as Google starts releasing more stuff, we’re going to be right on top of that. Helping our clients and our customers understand how to get it done.

C: So just on that sort of say that after this health website and mass schema is all done and it’s been okay for eight, nine months and then something comes out and it has to change. Does your second automatically change that my website or do I need to go ahead and implement it?

M: Yeah. So right now it does take manual, like someone to go in. We do a lot of our stuff with enterprise on templates. Kind of our highlighter where you optimize all pages that are, let’s say a hospital site, or your procedures pages. So today you’d have to go into the highlighter and just change a couple things. But again, part of the automation work that we’re trying to do is can we detect changes and make suggestions and so that you could actually do a one-click fix on it. Oh we’re not seeing URL. We can gauge your URL from where you’ve put it somewhere else. Let’s pull that, click here to fix it, or we’ve just fixed it for you. So a lot of the automated fixes, guidance like that, we call it our whole predictive analytics piece.

M: Those business rules will start coming in probably second half of this calendar year. But our goal is even on really kind of complicated pieces. But today, if you’re publishing new blogs and we’ve already optimized your blogs, those just get automatically done. But if there’s a whole page structure change, we actually have alarms on our side. If we see it, like a big drop and then how often it’s getting called and then we’ll make that change. But we can make it in 10 minutes. So that’s the part that’s really awesome.

C: I think obviously from the sounds of it in terms of implementing stuff, it’s very, very quick. Though from your end.

M: Yeah. When we get the right tags on there for deployment and we get the input we need from the business, our team can work quickly. We really try within the first week or two to have a whole site done. And I say a week or two because often we’re waiting for that tire to get live or if it’s like four or five templates. But if it’s one template, we have them on the phone, we get the template live. We can get the first version of it done within that day.

C: I think everyone will be interested in what you’ve got to say. So obviously your website is schema app.com. And obviously people can find you via social media or whatever. Martha van Berkel. And is there any other websites? Something else cool that you do? Or is this the main thing you do?

M: Yeah, this is my primary piece. When not being a mother, that’s my other project is being a mother. I have two children.

C: What’s better? Being a mother or the schema stuff.

M: What’s better? Probably, I don’t know. They’re both pretty fun. Don’t tell them that. Kids are amazing, right? But I think it’s really fun just to see the market get excited about this. And I joke, I’ve been, telling a lot of the same story and so I’m ready to start talking about how you reuse schema markup to enable analytics and enable the enterprise. And so there’s lots of other really cool things you can do with structure data once it’s set up properly. And so that’s sort of where we’re excited that we’re the market will be ready to do that this year.

C: Cool. Well, as a say, thank you very much for coming on and hopefully we cross paths again sometime. Of course the near future, know that we’ll bump into each other.

M: Well, I always need a good excuse to come to Glasgow, right? So I can come back to my old stomping grounds.

C: That said, Martha, was educated in Glasgow, so I’m taking some of the credit for your schema skills.

M: University of Strathclyde.

C: Thank you very much, Martha. It’s been a pleasure.

M: Bye. Thanks.

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Craig Campbell

I am a Glasgow based SEO expert who has been doing SEO for 18 years.

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