Outreach Link Building with Milosz Krasinski

Right, so today’s episode is going to have my good friend, Milosz Krasinski, who was based in London for 12 years. I got to know him through meeting him at different events such as Brighton SEO and everything else, but in the last year, Milosz went back home to Poland and is now spending time going across Europe, Germany, Prague and everything else, and is now working on his own and doing relatively well. So, Milosz, thank you for coming onto the podcast today.

Thank you, Craig. Thank you for having me. It’s definitely a pleasure to be with you and run this podcast with you. It’s definitely an opportunity.

Everything’s an opportunity. So for anyone who doesn’t know who you are, I’m sure they’ve seen you kicking about, especially the guys from the UK will for sure have seen you kicking about, but let’s give the people listening to a bit of a background on what you’re currently doing. Obviously, I got to know you when you were in the UK working for various different people, and you’re now fully on your own now, and you have relocated back to Poland. So just give the audience a bit of a background of what you’re currently able to offer in terms of SEO, link building. I’ll give the audience a bit of a background. Milosz, for me, I see him as a link builder. Obviously he does have a broad knowledge but let’s talk about what you’re able to offer these days, Milosz. Is it just link building or are you doing other stuff?

Link Building using Outreach

Well, it’s definitely link building at the end of the day, right? That’s what the client wants. They just want a link and they just want ranking. So yeah, that’s what I do. It’s more likely I do personalized campaigns. I find out that clients if you take one good client for, let’s say long-term, 12 months, you have to be build relationship with other guys in that space. Rather than just building links, right? Because in the long-term, you might find out yourself that you’re just building the links.

It’s very difficult to be on those publications, like real specific publications. So if you’re on the healthcare, and let’s say, some people, they don’t like this approach where you’re approaching bloggers, and bloggers and bloggers. It’s easy to get a link from bloggers but if you really want to get nice links from publications, like really good publication, not [inaudible 00:03:09] but from influencers within given space, you have to build relationships with them. So that’s what we kind of do at the moment. As well, we find out it’s very beneficial so we call them personalized link building campaigns because you have to speak with the influencers, that way. Does this make sense? It kind of different than just building links.

Yeah. I mean, as I said to you recently, I think what you’re doing is a really good job.

Thank you.

I’ve told you, if I want a cheap link I can go to people per hour and I can get on the standard websites that everyone’s selling, and I can do that personally myself and it doesn’t take a lot of time, effort, skill or anything else. I can get a link for 50 bucks or whatever the going price is. So I wouldn’t personally use a link builder for that because that’s garbage. Everyone’s getting those links and why the hell would I pay your fee for a link when I can get it myself for half the price?

Networking and Contacts help Link Building

So that’s the case for 90% of link builders. Where I think you’re doing really well is, you’re bringing unique websites that are not spammed to death. And as you say, that comes under the … call it whatever you like, influencer. You’re contacting people and you’ve said that you’re using your contacts that you’re building up. I think what you do very well is you talk to people. When you’re at different events you’re chatting to everyone and making relationships with people, and you’re now making that work in a monetary sense [inaudible 00:05:13].

I think that’s a smart move. It’s what I do. People often say to me, “Craig, you go to all these events and you’re chatting shit to everyone.” It’s work and you get to know these contacts and obviously I can now see that you’re making those contacts work for you in a professional sense. That’s my personal opinion of you. As I say, we’ve had conversations and I’ve said to you, “Don’t do the people per hour thing. Don’t sell the same garbage that everyone else is selling. You’ve got to make yourself unique because why would someone use you and not everyone else that’s selling from people per hour?” So, i think you’re doing that well and you seem to have grown arms and legs since you came over to Scotland. I can’t remember exactly when it was. It must have been about a year ago.

Oh no, it was than that. I think it was three years ago now. I think it’s been three years ago.

No, no.

Oh you’re talking about the last meeting.

The last time.

Yeah, okay.

The last time when we took you shopping for decent clothes and stuff like that. I think you had already went on your own, and you came to Scotland and we were in the office. Gary Wilson and we were talking about lists and all of that stuff. I think that was only about a year ago though. I don’t think that was any longer than that.

Yeah, it was a year ago. Yeah, I remember. Gary’s a great guy so he really helped me in terms of how should I think about the link building. You’ve mentioned the people per hour, you have to avoid the typical lists. People will give you the lists, people will give you the links. So, it great to have those, it’s great to have them because you can compare what other people already have. So you can see the price. You can see that, okay these are the websites that allowing links. It very easy, let’s say, to get that. But that will give you … you can build up a list, which is what we do. We have our master list. So we know that these are the websites that it’s very easy to get a link. You can buy or you can pay. It’s monetary. It’s just the transactional ones.

But, there are websites where you can’t just get a link, you can’t buy a sponsored post, and this is why you have to build your assets to the client that way. So I think that the conversation that we have in Glasgow a year ago, it really helped me to differentiate. It’s very hard to scale that right, because it’s personalized. So you only do this for the specific company or for the specific client. But it’s best to be really good at what you do in the one niche, rather than to be very generic.

Yeah. I mean, especially when it comes to link building. There’s so many link builders out there. I get 50 emails a day. Please look at my list and I’ve got better links than everyone else. You ask for their top five, 10 websites and it’s the same old garbage. The first thing I do when I see a link is put in the name of that website and people per hour, just for generic research, and I would see the cost of it. So, for example, if you come to me with a website and I put it in people per hour, and you’re trying to sell me it for 150 bucks, and I see it on there for 40 bucks, what’s the point in even talking to you? That’s the way I look at it.

Cost of Outreach Links?

I don’t mind paying you the 150 bucks, providing that it’s something I can’t get myself, and you’re taking the time to go away and get the content, and you’ve done the research, build the relationship. And I think obviously that conversation we had last year in making yourself unique, although it’s not totally scalable, I think people are looking for quality rather than quantity these days. They don’t mind paying your fee, as long as you’re bringing something to the table, and I think that’s where you’ll stand out and grow because link building’s tough. Especially in the UK and the US markets, where most of us try and do affiliate marketing or promote ourselves, or whatever it may be. So I think, from what I can see, you appear to be doing a very good job. As I say, I don’t see all of your work, I just know that any time that you propose a link to me, probably eight out of 10 are really good.

As I say, I have said, “Fuck me. What the hell is this?” The traffic’s shit and maybe slightly overpriced, but that’s obviously not your fault. You’re just bringing them the opportunity and as I say, I think eight out of 10 I would say hand on heart, is ones that I have taken. I think everyone out there is looking for different vendors anyway. I think you’re bringing something different to the table, and I like to have multiple vendors on a personal level. It’s not about a budget. If someone just brings me something good to the table, I’m grabbing it. If my competition don’t have it, then I want it.

It’s working well, but what I want to do is talk about how you’re going about doing that. How are you getting these links? What tools are you using? I know that most people will be using Pitch Box to do outreach. Are you doing a lot of outreach?

Python Scripts to Automate Outreach

I do a lot of outreach these days and I find out, it’s funny and not many people will like that because I’ve got my. I talked about scripts, you know that I have this automated Python scripts and they scrape a lot of emails. They verify emails and they can do automations. We do use that sometimes, it’s really helpful. But if you want to do outreach … and that’s what I found out. Let’s say the client and the subject, this is the thing, you need to know something about the client first because otherwise, you don’t really know how to write a pitch, an email, let’s say to the influencer. So you know that it’s very difficult to get a link on, let’s say, this website because you already ask them, “Can I get a sponsored guest post?” And they say, “We don’t allow any sponsored guest posts. We don’t do any link insertions and things like that.” We just have to become a contributor, and that’s really hard. How can you become a contributor in that space, if you don’t have knowledge?

So what we do, we’re taking the step further and we’re trying to learn as much as possible about the industry first. We’re looking at the influencer first because we know that these websites are unique. It’s not about the DR. This is the thing, I don’t know if you have the same feeling, but a lot of link builders in SEO, they just believe as long as DR is good, at 70, it will work. It will push links in the [inaudible 00:12:58], which is not true. It’s not the truth. It’s not always the truth.

What Metrics do Link Builders look at?

Yeah, I mean I’m certainly not just looking for DR as such. It is one metric that I look at to give me an indication as to whether a site’s powerful or not, but I’m looking at traffic, rankings, and that’s stuff’s got to come together. I think, if you don’t mind me telling the story, I think there were one the other day, that you sent across to me and asked me if I was interested in, and I think it had a DR 50 something. But it only had like 1000 hits a month and for me, something there doesn’t add up. If you’ve got a DR 50 and everything else is good, then how the hell are you only getting 1000 hits a month? There’s something not right there. You know the website’s been spammed to death, it’s not optimized right, and things like that.

What I’m looking for, over and above DR, is real websites that have real traffic. DR’s something that we can manipulate and stuff like that you can cheat all that stuff, but I’m looking for a bit more than that. Sometimes I use my own gut feeling as well, like that just doesn’t seem right, so I’m not going for it. Obviously cost comes into play as well. So if, dor example, I get a DR 50 and it cost me 80 bucks-

That’s a good price, yeah.

Then you come to me and you say, “Right, I’ve got a DR 40 here and it’s 125 bucks.” I’m going to say, “What the fucking hell’s going on here?” So obviously price is something that I do look at as well and we all know the kind of average cost of links. But, the average cost for links depends on who you’re dealing with. I think it’s up to individuals to find out.

Price of Links?

That’s something I also take into consideration as well. If you come to me and something’s double the price, I’m going to say, “It better be double the metric and offer double the value.” And it’s the same with any link vendor that I use. Price and everything comes into consideration, not just DR. Relevance as well, and also you’ve got to think ahead. Even if a website’s got a dr of say, 35, but that’s growing and the website looks as if it’s growing at a fairly reasonable pace, that’s certainly a gamble I would take as well. So I wouldn’t certainly snuff at something [crosstalk 00:15:47].

Yeah definitely, which is why I wanted to touch on this. It’s not the DR and neither the traffic. I mean, you need to have them but I’ve just realized something about the relevance. When, let’s say, you are a software development company and your client is looking to get only and only a website that are related to programming languages. That’s absolutely difficult to get. You have to agree with me that if you are doing that kind of link building, can you imagine that you have to be very specific about programming languages and from what kind of websites you’re linking to the client? Because the client is a software development company, so they understand that. It’s okay to get a link from the news websites, where the traffic is going to be high, the [inaudible 00:16:41] will be amazing but they want relevant links and they looking for relevancy, which is very difficult to get let’s say, a relevancy based on the domain.

How relevant does link building have to be?

So the entire domain is talking about one topic, which as I found out, this is very rare. These are the best websites and these ones, let’s say they talking about one subject specifically, and the entire domain is only about this. It’s very niche, very specialized. They don’t have much traffic obviously because it’s specialized. So it can get 500 hits per month or even 1000. The DR can be 20 or 30 but the relevancy is such a ultra and it’s unique. It’s unique for the, they understand that it’s unique for the industry as well because let’s say, I don’t know, if you’re going to some high authority websites, they allowing only tutorials about programming languages. How can you get those if you’re not a programmer? You would have to have someone who is able to write programming tutorials because you can’t get this link. You can’t buy it, you cannot do a sponsored guest post. Unless you do, but I think it’s not the same if you do the sponsored guest and many of them, they just don’t allow that. They’re just looking for the contributes.

Personalised Outreach Campaigns

If you do those personalized campaigns, you’re looking for these authority websites and you have to get there, you’re changing the game completely. So, the DR then, and the traffic, it doesn’t matter, it’s just the relevancy. We just find out yesterday, yeah really yesterday, there is a blog, it’s talking about, I think, programming languages but one specific program. It’s one language only. I think it’s [inaudible 00:18:40] or something like that. The client is falling in love with that. He really wants to get a link. So, it’s very difficult because you have to pitch and they will tell you some stories. They will tell you topics you can write something about it. But, you would have to have that guy within your campaign that he will be able to write only specific content for these specific websites. So you have to work with either one, or two or three, but they need to understand the client first and the way how they present content.

So, I think it’s very unique. And this is why we call them personalized campaigns because you have to train your content writers first and they need to have at least some sort of background as well. And you’re kind of limited in that sense because if you’re not the developer, how can you get those links? Especially if you do for software development companies. We do one campaign at the moment and the cost per click … so they trying to rank for custom software development. It’s a key word. That keyword costs, in the UK, $106, according to SEMrush. That’s hell of a lot of money for one click.

We checked the backlink profile of the top 10 guys and they do really have very specific links. Sometimes we just scratching heads and we’re thinking, how the hell is that possible? So, it works but it takes time. The client, he doesn’t want to have many links, either the traffic. As I said yesterday, we find out the website that the traffic is really good, the DR is quite decent. No sorry, no the traffic was really good, the relevancy was absolutely amazing but the DR for some reasons, we don’t know why, we just check the backlinks and everything seemed to be okay but they have DR 08. That’s an absolute no go but the clients says, “I really want that link because it’s such absolutely relevant.” But I said, “DR 08, come on.”

It wouldn’t be one for me but as I say, everyone’s got different metrics. Some people are just looking, as you said, for super relevant domains and stuff like that. Whereas, someone like me, as long as the content’s related, then that’s enough for me to be relevant. So, everyone’s got different goals and I don’t think anyone’s really got the right or the wrong answer. If your client’s happy with it, they’re happy.

Very true, yeah I mean, it probably makes sense, we just don’t know. He understands that better because probably the traffic is DR 08. Sorry, the DR is 08 but the traffic and the audience is probably … these are the developers, these are the programmers, they’re really into that. So when they see the link, when they see the article, it’s appealing to them. It appeals as absolutely highly relevant to them and it brings the traffic to the website as well. So I think it’s good for branding purposes as well.

Beyond Link Building

I think it’s beyond link building, just because you go in there, you get these links, you build the content, but it helps to improve the brand as well, the authority, and build this perception. So I think it’s beyond link building as well. So as I said, you have to have good content writers that really understand the subject as well because otherwise, without them, you can only do the outreach and ask, “Can we write something?” But what can you write if you don’t have these guys behind you?

So that’s the thing. This is what we do. So, we build the campaigns, we train everything, we look for the influencers and we know that sooner or later we’ll get there and within 30 days we already know who’s the big player in the industry.

Content Writers for Link Building

Yeah. Now, obviously you’ve got the hard part covered. Finding the links, reaching out to them, using Pitch Box, whatever. Now, a simple question I’ve got for you, how the fuck do you keep the content writers in check? That’s something I’ve always has a problem with, is finding good content writers who are reliable, quick, and stuff like that. Where are you finding these guys and how the hell are you hanging onto them?

Okay, you won’t believe but I found out my best writer, two best writers, one got sacked because it was too late. It was good, she was really good. She was writing absolutely amazing content and the acceptance rate was always 90%. So every time she wrote something, it gets approval instantly. There was not changes and anything like that. Just small changes, can we do revision? Can we change that and that? But nothing major and the acceptance rate was high. But really good guys, obviously difficult to find them but I find currently with this specific campaign, I find one at People Per Hour, which is absolutely funny because it’s the website that we’re trying to avoid. We only get there just to find out if the link already exists. But the guy that I have is really absolutely amazing.

You’ve asked me how do I check the content. I don’t really check the content that much. We just find out that sometimes it’s best to let go. Let them go. Let them write at what they do great. You see where I come from? I always do it like this. Hey, [Nicci 00:25:08], let’s say, because her name is [Nicci 00:25:12]. Can you do me-

[Nicci 00:25:13], yeah [Nicci 00:25:14]. Her name is [Nicci 00:25:15]. I was like, “Can you do a pitch for me, for this website?” She goes, next day, four different pitches with outlines. I copy that and paste, and I’ll send that over to the editor. Usually they always say number one place, or number two or number three. No question asked. Next day after, she already got an article and they say, “This is great. This is amazing.” When you do this 10 times, 20 times, 30 times, you know that you don’t have to do anything. You just only have to contact that very specific websites. They looking for great content and she will deliver that.

Sometimes what we have to do, which is beyond now your question, is people will ask you who you are. They want to see your social media profiles, which is very now difficult to prove who you are, because you can be ghostwriter and in our case, we’re using ghostwriters. So we have to create a person up. You create literally, person on a Twitter, on a LinkedIn, just so that person appears is relevant to, let’s say, I don’t know, journalist, or maybe it’s a content writer, or is a person that talks about technology and is a writer, or anything like that. That will kind of help you to get this conversion because editors, sometimes they do check who you are. Great content but who you are. I want to see your LinkedIn, I want to see your Twitter, I want to see your Facebook. It’s very difficult to say you don’t have any of those.

Building Fake personas for Link Building

You see, when you become a contributor, you have to kind of build the fake person up. Technically speaking, its a white lie but I just find out that you don’t hurt anyone. You bring in the content that really help the audience, it helps the websites to back up the authority, you bring the really good content. They happy, so you don’t really lie on that, you just bring the really good content. You publish this content as a different person.

Right, so I’m going to put you on the spot now. Rumour had it, and I’m not going to say who gave me this rumour, that some of your fake personas are actually females and stuff like that. Is that correct? When you’re pitching under female personas and I’m pretty sure of anyone’s being realistic, they probably do the same thing so I’m not having a pop at that. Now, the question I really want to know is, does that actually work better, pretending to be a female rather than a male, or a male rather than a female within certain industries? Is that something you find is actually a thing?

We’ve done the conversions, like a test conversions. We’ve been keep sending from as a male and sometimes you just don’t get reply but if you are a female and you have unique name, let’s say something like Jasmine … I mean, I spoke with Gareth Hoyle once on Facebook and he said that his team does that and they say that Jasmine works the best. I don’t know whether he was absolutely realistic and true to that but I think he was having a lot of fun speaking about that. So, I think there must be truth, something read that females converts better than males, especially when you want to do the outreach. I don’t know what it is, but it works.

I’ve got a question on this.

Yeah.

So, we agree that people are doing this strategy and it clearly works to some degree. If you’re going out and building a Twitter and a Facebook, and everything else, under Jasmine for example, where do you get the picture? Because a lot of these personas look fucking real and you look at them going, “Jeez, that could be a real person. That could really be Jasmine and she really likes being … she’s giving me all this chat to get a blog post and all that stuff.” If you were to do that in the dating world, that would be called catfishing. Realistically we lost it sending the email. So, where are you getting these pictures from? Do you just steal them from people’s Facebooks? Because I’ve seen fake personas that are really bad and you can tell its got a Chinese guy morphed on to an Indian guy’s face or whatever. They just don’t go together. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen those kind of fake face generators that you can just tell a mile away. You look at it and go, “Jesus. That’s not good.” what are you doing to get those pictures?

Getting Caught out using a fake persona?

What I found out, I have to admit that I kind of fucked-up once and I took completely random person from very famous newspaper. We didn’t know, we didn’t check, we haven’t done the checks, we just took it. When you build a Gmail profile, a new profile, we put a picture over there, I think it’s 300 pixels by 300, and we find out we [inaudible 00:31:04]. It was working. We’ve approached one person. That person says, “Yes, this is great.” We’ve said that, I’m a student, I’m trying to get into writing. That was the story. And she said, “Yeah great. Can you write this and that?” We’ve don’t that and they’ve already published with the picture. The picture was taken from somewhere else, we don’t know, from the internet. We just didn’t change that, we just kind of agreed that it’s a good profile, it works with this picture. And someone found it.

So what happened is, the content has been published by this person, by this fake person with this picture, and someone literally found it, and it was on Facebook. So the editor came back and say, “Look, you are fake person.” He also say we have to take down this article because there are people saying that you’re not … they just find out the actual URL to this picture. It was horrendous. It was really bad. It was really bad and I was actually feeling so bad and I literally had to apologize. I will never trust anyone else from these random people on the internet because this is the thing, on the internet you can be anyone else.

So what we find out, we still keep the white lie. The white lie means that you don’t hurt anyone. I mean, in this case we’ve hurt it. We did the damage to the editor. So that was really bad. So what we done is, we take the picture and we use the filters. So you have a picture that is not clear. It’s like an illustration sort of. Look at Anton. Anton has got exactly that illustration on his Facebook profile. Have you seen it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You use that kind of stuff, and that works, yes. Then we find out that we can get away, so people will never find out who you are. They don’t have to see your face. Just say, “I’m a technology journalist. I’m writing about software development companies or, software development, I don’t know, teams or anything like that.” And in that way, that was a kind of a key conversion. Editors were okay with that. We said that we were ghostwriters and we just trying now to build up our portfolio. That’s what we say and they say, “Yeah, okay fine. Okay, good. Please write, send me a pitch and outline.” And they okay with that.

So technically it’s a white lie but you’re not damaging the authority of the website by doing so and you’re delivering the content. So we focus on the content but the way that we find out, you have to build a fake person sort of. But that’s the way, with these pictures. So you have to create this illustration a little bit.

There is automated softwares that you put a picture of yours and it will change it to something like funky, something colorful. So it’s not a real picture anymore, but that works.

Im trying to make that sound genuine but I think you’ve got to play tricks. Everyone does it and I think anyone saying that they don’t, is lying through their teeth.

Yeah.

You’ve got to play tricks. I’ve don’t loads of tricks over the years. Using fake personas and stealing pictures, and various other bits and bobs. I’ve never been caught, to be fair, but interesting to hear that you got caught. In that particular instance though, when you did get caught, was that the one with Andy Drinkwater, or was that a different situation?

No that was a different situation. Oh with Andy Drinkwater that was hilarious, you remember that one.

Yeah.

Shall we really say that on air? We should say because it’s podcast.

Guest Post Article full of duplicate content

I want to give a background into this story first. You said there, prior to the kind of fake pictures and everything else, that you’ve got to let go and just trust the content writer.

Yeah, yeah.

Now the question after that was, can you really just let go and trust the content writer, given what happened with Andy Drinkwater’s website? which was quite a [inaudible 00:35:57] for Andy’s face. Because Andy actually WhatsApped me going, “What the fucking hell is this?” What can I say? But I’ll let you tell the story. So let’s talk about the Andy Drinkwater scenario. What happened there?

So basically, we just wanted to write something technical, something about, I don’t know. Something technical. Good content apparently. So the content was written. We’ve sent it to Andy. Andy published and within 24 hours, someone famous, someone found an exact copy of that. It was written, it was a good quality in terms of re-writing. You put this in Grammerly or one of those tools and you couldn’t find duplication. But the headings, the structure was almost similar. It was just well re-written. I did not check that because I trusted. She did a lot of articles really good but the point was that, that particle piece of content was highly technical. Andy Drinkwater does not talk about operations or SEO technical basic stuff. He wants to have something advanced. And we had that content, something advanced. So the lady, she really wrote the entire story. It was really good but it was just one of those, that person … because it’s Andy Drinkwater so it gets a lot of publicity as well. People are sharing this stuff. People find it via Twitter. This is so good, this is such great content. It talks about security issues and why, and there is a story behind and everything.

After 24 hours it was late, and was I think 10:00, and Andy just texted me. “Hey mate. Look, we’ve got some …” He’s told me we’ve got a problem. Literally like that. He sent me a screenshot that someone, a famous person from really famous SEO agency found out that, something like that, I knew it. And he put a link, it’s not real. He actually found the real version of that article that was re-written and it was exactly like that, and I was like, “Oh my God. Andy, I’m so sorry. I don’t know what to say. I don’t know how this happened.” I just told him that I trust her and he goes, “No worries bud, no worries bud but I think we have to take this down. It will be better and I will come up with some story that it was a guest post and it was my fault or something like that.” And that’s what he did. He took down the article very quickly and he said that “Apologies, it was a guest post and I did not check whether or not it was very unique.” And something like that.

But next day was everything fine. But it was such a funny story but we were actually laughing. But funny story, sometimes it could go wrong. It’s a brand at the end, that’s his brand so it could hurt him.

I think obviously, if you can take lessons from it, one, Andy has to check guest posts that are going on his website. But two, you, as the guy proving a guest post, cannot let go. You can’t let go, you’ve still got to have some form of process in place where stuff does get checked because if you start getting a name for … that was obviously a one-off occasion but if you were to start getting a name for that stuff, I’m pretty sure your link building career would be down the toilet pan very, very quickly.

Yeah.

But there’s always good fun stories to be had as well and I think you’ve got to laugh at them some people take life way too seriously.

Oh yeah.

Link Building Mistakes

We all make mistakes and we all try and cut a corner here and there, and whatever. I make mistakes. I’ve made more mistakes than anyone to be honest, and been caught red handed, and stuff like that. Yeah, it’s never good. It’s never good but it’s all fun and games.

It certainly is. I mean, it does happen so this is why what I’ve learned is, it’s better to have content writers that have some sort of PR background because when they do … it’s my personal sort of way. So I have got, at the moment, a writer who has actual, real PR, within a big company, a PR background. So when she writes, I tend to give her full … she can do whatever she wants. There is obviously a brief. She knows how to use the SEO tools, she knows how to optimize, she knows what sort of resources and out links she needs to use in order to make that piece of content highly authoritative. So we know that based on the data from the … here is the citation. So she knows, she does that. We check that, everything. But also, she’s got this kind of way of writing [inaudible 00:41:38]. They’re very catchy. They’re not just SEO orientated, and that helps a lot. We do that.

We say to her, “Hey, this is the type of content we’re looking for but feel free to completely put your writing style.” And doing so, when we do the checks and everything, it really helps because if you see the acceptance rate, it’s much higher when we do that. So it’s better to sometimes train someone, you just need to have your brief, like a guidance, somewhere written exactly what you want. And it has to be clear, very clear. So that person, when you’re onboarding her and she has, let’s say PR background, it’s very easy for her to write a story rather than just another article. You see where I come from?

So it’s still helpful but people like to read something, especially on those big publications where the story comes in. So, you’re connecting the dots and why this or that has some sort of connections with the past and even the headline’s really good. So that works, that’s what we find out, that it’s just one of the trick. Hire someone who has PR background rather than just a ghost writer, like a general ghost writer. It really helps.

Yeah. No, it really helps. I think every little wee thing really helps in this industry and you’ve always got to pay attention to those kind of small details. It’s just the way you’ve got to be I think. But on a completely different subject altogether, obviously we’ve spoke a bit about outreach, your link building, and other bits and bobs.

Polish SEO Market

Recently I was out in Poland with you Polish guys and thoroughly enjoyed the event and stuff like that. The market out there though, and I think we’ve spoke about this, doing SEO or doing link building in the UK and the US is completely different from doing it in Poland for example. That’s the kind of general consensus I got. I’d never been to Poland prior to coming out to the event there in September, or whenever it was, the end of August, I can’t remember. What I found was, that spam still works out there. Is that something you’re finding, that the algorithms are maybe slightly different and more difficult for us in the UK than out in Poland? Because these guys are crazy, crazy guys and very successful guys but even those guys are saying they’re still spamming shit up and it’s working really well for them.

Unfortunately, it appears so. Because I don’t do any Polish content or Polish SEO so to speak. I’m here but all my clients, when they’re coming to me, they’re coming to me to do link building at English markets, so that’s different. But, we’ve been there together at this SEO [inaudible 00:45:16], at this conference and I was having handful of conversations and they say that on [inaudible 00:45:24] countries, Google isn’t that great. You can still kind of do the spam bit different, machines are not so well orientated in the sense of looking at relevancy. They don’t see the relevancy. They don’t see the application, I think, that’s what these guys, affiliate guys, they know they’re successful so it works for them. So that’s what they said. You can still do the domain, you can buy expired domains and you can do re-directions and it works. It still works for them. So, it has changed. Don’t get me wrong, Penguin is still there. Penguin works for the Poland but you don’t have to be that precise. You don’t have to be ultra-relevant.

I’ve seen the cases where you could, let’s say, build your authority website about, I don’t know, about health or something to do with the health. It’s your affiliate website and you can build with the backlinks from a completely different industry, and that will rank you as well. So, it is what it is. I know that there’s a one guy from Poland who does, I think Norwegian stuff, he ranks something financial in Norway. So he is in the top one, and all the links are from Poland, and you can take this for granted. so for example, Norway, and Poland, all these countries are still there, I think not under the Google radar. I think, if I can say that. I think it’s a fact still. It will take a while, Google to learn that relevancy in different languages.

They’re very good at English markets, they can see relevancy, they can recognize the spam. They’re still quite fast in terms of algorithms. I mean, you can see that every time there’s an algorithm, you can see the set up. The set up is absolutely flowing from up to down, always. But, in different countries, it’s completely different. I know the guy who did some really good stuff, literally copying the top 10 content. He create a website of one landing page. He put all the keywords, just whatever he could scrape. And within next day, I think, or maybe seven days after, he already was ranking in the top 10 for some financial things in Georgia. But have you ever seen Georgia language? It’s like, I don’t know, from different world. Georgia language is different and it looks so French that it’s already you feel like, what the hell is that? The language is so scary because by look.

Polish Algorithm is Weak

But he did that, he just literally copy and pasted. That was a very good cast study for him that he just proved that you can literally scrape, copy, put a landing page and you will still rank. Because of the semantic key word he did that, and with no links literally, he was able to rank. Then he put some other links and then it was working for him. I think he did already some deals. It was credit cards in Georgia. It’s funny, it’s really funny that you can do that.

Yeah. It’s interesting. As I say, I’ve not been out to Poland before and don’t have much experience in that side of things, and just found it mind blowing that the rules were so different and as I say, some of the guys out there are doing super successful stuff using these tactics. So, I found it very interesting. As I say, loved Poland as well. It was a great conference and great people, and all of that kind of stuff. Yeah, super fun.

Yeah, we definitely wanted to see you back in there, in [inaudible 00:49:40] and probably in Krakow soon. So I just need to speak with Robert and Damian. You know these guys? So, they’ve organized the recent SEO Rates Conference. So it was very successful and I think at least you’d get that sense of the Polish party. It’s a different way.

Out of a lot of the events I’ve been to, my honest opinion was, when I was comping to Poland I’m like, I don’t know what to expect. These guys are not going to really understand the accent, I’m going to be isolated over there. But very, very welcoming , great bunch of people, very friendly. Even guys were fighting over trying to help Charlie and Lauren go back to the apartment. Very respectful guys and we watched the football together. My local team, Rangers, were playing Legia Warsaw and we all spent time watching that.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, because you’re from Glasgow, right?

Yeah.

So Rangers from Glasgow.

Yeah, so there was loads of boos and yeah, great, very welcoming people as well. Which, I’m not saying I wasn’t expecting it, but I’ve been to enough events out there to know that sometimes you’re just left to your own devices. But these guys were bending over backwards to help. Even Robert and stuff, picking me up at the airport, and taking care of me, and giving me and my family our own place to stay as well. You don’t always get that at events. Sometimes you just get slung in a hotel room and stuff. So as I say, even those small details for that event were spot on. What I also found really good was the level of knowledge over there. These guys are doing some insane stuff, really crazy. [inaudible 00:51:56] and all these kind of other guys.

Thinking outside the box for expired domains

Do you remember that guy, Jacob, and he said that he bought some expired domains from that people. Here was politicians from different countries and they had-

Airplane crash.

Yeah they had aeroplane crash. Yeah exactly, there was an aeroplane crash and after six months the domain was left, it wasn’t extended and he bought this domain with all these political links, with governmental links. That’s insane. That really insane buy it works.

It’s a funny story. These guys are, as I say, as insane as everyone else out there and that’s what it’s all about. And it was great to hear some of the funny stuff that these guys are doing as well. We’re all human beings at the end of the day and we’re all doing the same old stuff, and playing the same old tricks. As I say, it was great, it was fun. Fun, friendly and hopefully I get an invite back next year if they do it again and I’m sure there’ll be more people there because I’ve got nothing but nice things to say about that event. I think because it’s a smaller event, you get to know most of the attendees there. You get to spend a bit of time with everyone rather than, if you go to an event and there’s 500 people there, you don’t really get to mingle or get to sit and have a beer with people. But over there, I think there was maybe 30 plus, maybe 40 tops and I think I probably had a beer or at least a conversation with most people. And I think that’s always good as well because I’m always looking to hear what other people are up to as well, and obviously try and implement it into my own stuff as well, because I think everyone’s got their own angles and I learn a lot. So yeah, great event.

I don’t know if you remember this conversation but out of this conversation, do you remember you were speaking with Robert and you just said to him, “Hey do you want to speak at Milan this year?” And out of this conversation, yeah now he’s speaking at Milan because of you. All these conferences, you’re helping people because you see them. They’re helping you but you see, that’s something they can’t see, what they can get out of this. You wouldn’t expect that you get invitation in Milan and for the Polish guy, it’s definitely something. It’s a big opportunity and it’s very nice of you that you’ve come up with this idea.

Marco is pleased having Robert. So definitely we have to come up with another conference, maybe this year. Robert can you hear me, and Damian? You really need to make up something. Organize something for Craig here. Let’s do a really outstanding … maybe we should do Mastermind in Poland.

Polish SEO Mastermind

Anything so I can get the opportunity to come back over there. It’s only, I don’t even know if it’s as much as two hours. I think an hour and a half, two hour flight. So I can be in Poland quicker than I can be in Manchester. So yeah, make something happen. We’ll have a Christmas party in Poland.

Oh yeah. Good idea, good idea.

But sadly Milosz, we are out of time. We have spoken for nearly an hour but just before we go, for anyone who’s interested in anything you’ve had to say, whether it be link building or consultancy, or whatever else it is you do, where’s the best place for people to get hold of you?

Just probably type in Miloszkrasinski.com, you will find me. Or probably the best way would be, if they will come to you because they know you, and if they ask about me, you can always do the introductions. I think, because my surname is quite difficult to remember. So they type in Milosz and they would trying to find me using my surname, it would be very difficult but I do have website. I do have website, so you can find me. It’s miloszkrasinski.com but as I said, it’s not English surname so you probably might have difficulties to write this.

If by any chance you want to really talk to me, speak to the Craig channel, Facebook probably will be the easiest way to do so.

Yeah, you’ll get me on Facebook but for anyone who can’t be bothered talking to me, his name is Milosz Krasinski. Should be fairly easy. Google something like Milosz and something will come up. But no, in all seriousness I can point you in the right direction if you want to get a hold of Milosz or Milo, as I call him. I can’t be bothered to say Milosz. All these foreign pronunciations are too much like hard work. But no, I appreciate you taking he time to come on and giving us some insights as to how you’re doing business and obviously some of the funny stories we shared. So, appreciate it mate.

Thank you so much. Thank you Craig for that. Thank you for having me.

No worries.

Summary
Outreach Link Building with Milosz Krasinski
Article Name
Outreach Link Building with Milosz Krasinski
Description
A general chat about outreach link building and finding opportunities to get links that many others cant.
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Craig Campbell SEO
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Craig Campbell

I am a Glasgow based SEO expert who has been doing SEO for 17 years.

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