Digital Management Training & Consulting with Mads Singers

C: So on today’s podcast, I’m joined by, I was going to say fellow Scotsman but you’re now back in Asia. So Mr Mads Singers, who was staying in Glasgow for a while. So Mads, thank you for joining me. How are you?

M: Thank you very much, Craig. I’m doing fantastic. I’m sitting here in Asia and enjoying the heat.

C: I’m not jealous at all. We are sitting and I think it’s like nine, ten degrees, and it’s raining. You know it very well anyway, staying the last six months in Greenock. So yeah, not jealous at all of you lying about in Vietnam or wherever you are just now, enjoying some of the sunshine. But yes, good to have you on anyway.

C: Can you talk a bit about what you’re currently doing, what you specialize in, and all of that kind of stuff? Obviously you’ve been to the Glasgow meet up and I still think guys don’t fully understand what it is Mads brings to the table because the people here are so far behind the times. But hopefully the people on the podcast are a bit more up with the times and they do actually get what you’re doing. But for anyone listening, can you just explain a bit about what you do and what your core value is in this industry?

About Mads Singers

M: Sure. Yeah, so I work with a lot of SEO companies and basically what I do, my key focus if you will, is really around management coaching and it’s really about helping people build great teams, scale, and really get the structure in. Because a lot of SEO, as you know, they start out they’ve done affiliate, or an agency world and most of them don’t have a background managing people.

M: So, what very frequently happens is, they start a business, they are surrounded by a bunch of people but they don’t know how to manage them effectively, they don’t know how to get the most out of them and they don’t really know what to do to scale the business, and that’s really where I come in.

M: I’ve worked with some of the biggest SEOs around. So I work with people like Matt Diggity. I work with even the top guys like Tim Soulo. So I work with a lot of the big guys and really help them get to the right level of management skill. I just worked with a huge guy from the US last week. Basically again, helping him put the right frame, the right structure in place, find the right people to sort of manage his operation and so on – that’s really the core of what I do.

M: I have great training as well on the management skills, people management and I’ve built this specifically so people can up their game. When you can learn SEO, you can learn management. The reason why most people hate managing stuff is that they’ve never spent time actually learning it and just like the first 10 seconds you look at SEO, it looks complicated as hell.

M: But, the more you start knowing, the more you start understanding it, the easier it is and it’s the same with management. Fundamentally, management ain’t extremely difficult but there’s definitely some basic stuff you need to know and that’s the sort of basic stuff I go through in my course and really get people up to scratch. Generally, what I say, doing that course you get better than 90% of the people out there just simply because most people don’t invest in it.

C: Yeah. I had an agency years ago and it was by pure fluke, it wasn’t something I set out to do and I really had no clue and no real desire to manage people properly. But, I think when you have that approach where you don’t really give a toss, it is a massive negative impact on your business because people are people and they do need to be managed.

C: I think that was obviously one of the kinds of failures I had, if you like, when I had an agency, was not having access to a guy like yourself who could help me or implement things within my business that would have a bit more structure. Where I just wanted to be everyone’s friend and everything else, and just have an easy life. People like you would probably kill me for even thinking about having that approach.

C: So I think, as an SEO guy, most guys I’m assuming just stumble across this stuff and build up an agency, and that’s where the guys like you come in. Because people do struggle to scale. They just don’t know, they’re not businessmen, they’re not thinking like businessmen. That’s something obviously I’ve adapted and would consider myself fairly astute at business now but when I was running an agency, I had no clue. I didn’t even know when I was starting an agency, that I had to get an accountant and pay tax, and all that kind of stuff as well. It was just a complete minefield. I just wanted to make money online and didn’t really understand anything else.

C: So I think to have someone like yourself who has that experience, and background, and knowledge is adding massive value. You’re working with some of the biggest players on the game and obviously that speaks for itself. Do you do this kind of stuff online or do these people come to you or do you go to them? How does it work?

Is this done online or in-person?

M: Yeah, so there are different models to be honest. I do a lot of consistent coaching with people where we meet a couple of times a month, and that usually happens online. A lot of the time when people, either if they have an office location, a lot of the people I work with obviously have sort of distributed team but once in a while they basically bring the team together in a location, and often I would go work with them at that location.

M: At the moment, because it’s getting near Chiang Mai, a lot of people are bringing some of their executives, so the high-level team, out to my SEO conference. So both before and after the conference, I’m meeting with various people to kind of give their team a shakeup and so on. There are different models depending on the situation of the clients. In some cases as I said, I work solely with the owners, in some cases, it’s the owner and the management team. It often depends on how big the business is and so on.

M: One of the key things for me, one of the key things I see happening consistently, is people are like, “Oh this guy’s great at link building. We have 10 link builders. Tomorrow you be the manager of the link building team.” But it’s not like he wakes up tomorrow morning and suddenly has management skills.

M: So one of the key things for me is really making sure people also invest in the staff they promote because one thing is to own skills, but when you promote someone into a new position, just because they’re good at link building doesn’t mean they’re a good manager. So making sure you actually invest in the people you’re promoting to management positions is one of the sorts of pet peeves that I’m really, really keen on pushing people on because it makes such a difference. It makes such a big difference.

How to manage people

C: Yeah, I think you’re 100% spot on because guys out there who are good at link building probably know next to nothing about managing other people. I’m not Gary Wilson, for example, who isn’t a good people manager. He obviously has VAs and stuff but he’s a young boy and doesn’t really have a background in that. And I know he’s done consultancy and obviously has tried to better himself with yourself. But just as an example, I’m using Gary as just a crazy, young boy who’s found himself with VAs and probably doesn’t know how to speak to people properly.

C: So, I take it that’s something that you work with people on, over a period of time. You can’t just train someone’s management skills overnight. What is the process for that? Is that something you do over like a year, or six months?

M: Yeah. It’s actually very, very different, Craig. So different people have different needs. They have different team sizes and so on. Generally, I’d say I’ve worked with clients on a coaching level. It’s usually people that have at least three staff because until you have some staff and have experienced some of this stuff, it’s often harder to relate to it. So the 1-to-1 coaching is usually three staff or more. Obviously the management course I have people can buy at any level. But the coaching, I generally focus on people that have at least three staff because that gives them a good foundation of experience. It’s often good to start while you’re small because that means you avoid a lot of the problems.

M: A lot of people, they come to me when they have 15 staff and everything’s up in the air, but then it’s often a lot more … it takes longer to fix it and it’s a little bit more difficult because you might already have totally screwed up the relationship with some of your staff.

M: So basically the engagements look different. So again, if I get to spend a couple of days with them, that can make a huge difference. Then usually what would happen is, I would do coaching for a period of time. People have different objectives they are trying to reach. I’ve had clients that I’ve worked with for more than five years and I’ve had a lot of clients that worked with for maybe three months, or six months or something. So it’s very, very different depending on what people are trying to do and again, what skills they bring to the table, how quickly they pick it up and so on. It’s very different from person to person. My focus is getting them to a level where they’re all comfortable and where things are moving the right way.

What are the main mistakes people make when managing people?

C: So obviously when you’re dealing with these things, you’re seeing a lot of the problems on probably a frequent basis. What is the kind of main things that people do wrong when they’re managing people? Is it things like they’re becoming too friendly with them, too close to them? What are the kind of top three things, for example, where people are just shooting themselves in the foot right off the bat?

M: I’ll take it from a slightly different angle. So I’ll say the things where people often aren’t doing well is, number one, is they don’t actually build a relationship with the staff and what I mean with that is, you don’t need to be friends with people, but you need to listen to people, you need to treat them as human beings.

M: I worked with a client the other week who, he had worked with a VA for five years and he had never even had a voice conversation with them. Throughout five years he had only been writing on Skype to this VA. Obviously, I’m not saying he got no value out of it, but if you have a great employee that will work with you for a long time, if you actually open Skype, open some video, get to know the person as a human being, you can get so much more stuff out of them.

M: “If your friends call you up and say ‘Hey man I’m moving on Saturday can you come help?'” If you get help, it generally depends on how good a friend they are. And it works the same way in business. The better you take care of your staff, the more you listen to them, the more they feel respected, the more they feel valued, the more they’re going to do for your business. If they feel like, oh this guy doesn’t talk to me, he sends me stuff once in a while, he doesn’t really care who I am or my family and that kind of thing, if that’s the case then you’re not going to get the same output. Also it’s the, oh it’s 5:01, I’m out the door versus, oh it’s 5:01 and there’s still a little bit to do so I’ll finish that off, it takes 10 minutes and then I’m on. But that’s the difference.

M: The second thing that I see and probably the biggest issue most people have, is really around delegation, around delegating both tasks and responsibility. There are so many people on the internet that’s like, “Ah yeah you build this process, you give that to someone and you tell them to press the button two million times a day.”

M: While giving people a process can be helpful, you need to give them ownership. You need to make them care because if you just hand people a task and say, “Hey, do this one thing seven billion times a day.” One, they don’t know if it goes wrong. You don’t build the care and you don’t give them the responsibility to actually take ownership of the tasks. I think that’s sort of the second thing I see.

Recruitment Phase

M: The third thing, is probably a step back from that, is really in the recruitment phase. A lot of SEOs particularly, are not great at recruiting. They’re just not good at it. So, that’s one of those things where they can quickly increase their skill set by investing a little bit of time trying to come a little bit better at it.

C: Yeah. I think you’ve probably said a lot of the things that I’m really bad at or was bad at when I had my agency. Recruitment, I’ve actually done a podcast with another guy earlier on and we were having this discussion in terms of problems we’ve had recruiting in the past and stuff like that. You literally have half an hour or an hour to make a decision on a person. But this guy takes people to the pub and gets them to loosen up, and spends a bit more time with them because he values getting to know people better and I think that was quite a great angle to hear what that guy actually goes to those lengths when he’s looking for new members of staff. He feels that that’s a great place and takes it that step further with recruitment. Whereas before I was just like, get 10 people in and I’ll pick the best one and again, that’s probably just not the best attitude to have.

What’s in Mads training?

M: Yeah, in my training I go through a lot of this stuff but one of the fundamentals is, when you’re looking at a pool of people, the best one might not be good enough. You might have 20 people in your office and none of them cut it. A lot of people go down that hole of, let’s hire the best. But the thing is, if the best you have sitting in front of you isn’t good enough, you don’t want to hire them. I mean again, if you’re hiring in the Philippines or if you’re hiring somewhere remote from you, obviously taking people to the pub becomes a little bit more difficult but yeah there’s definitely something to be said about it.

M: One of the key things for me about recruitment is that most people look at it as a fulfillment process But really recruitment is sales. Most people like, oh people should be so happy to work for me, here’s a job post I’ll put it up online.

M: Really, if you want the best people, you have to sell your job. You have to sell your company. You have to get people coming in the door saying, “I don’t want a job, I want to work for you.” Because again, one of the fundamental secrets about recruitment is that the best people are rarely unemployed. If you have really good people, they don’t sit around unemployed. What most people do is they post some job posts and generally the people looking on job posts are unemployed.

C: Yeah. It makes perfect sense.

M: One of the sort of small secret hacks, I used to do this one, LinkedIn, for example, is a great place and what I do specifically on LinkedIn or what we do generally with my team is we would find people with the right skills. Let’s say we need someone to do an active campaign. We would go to LinkedIn, you could search for a geographical location and search for active campaign. Then, start messaging people and saying, “Hey man, I can see you have experience working with an active campaign. We currently have this job opening available. Would you happen to know anyone that would be a good fit?”

M: So we don’t try and poach people directly for a few reasons. One is, if you just try and poach people, say, “Are you interested?” What will happen is the discussion will very quickly be, “How much are you paying?” And then it just becomes a conversation with a guy you don’t even know. But if you actually say, “Would you happen to know anyone?” We get two great responses. One of them is, “Oh yeah, I know this guy would be awesome.” And the other great response is, “Oh that actually seems interesting to me.” But the problem is a little bit, when you’re headhunting, when someone is being headhunted, they already feel sort of feel like, “Oh you already contacted me. Why do I have to prove myself?” Whereas when you do it the other way, they sort of say, “Hey we have this job role available. Would you know anyone?” It kind of makes them part of the job process as anyone else.

M: At this point in time, you don’t know any better anyway. But it’s a good way to fill your funnel with people who are either recommended by good people or potentially people that you write to directly, that show interest in the job.

C: Yeah. It’s interesting stuff and it’s amazing to hear even those simple little hacks. It’s not until you actually say them, you make it sound really simple. Every time I talk to you I feel like going, Craig, you’re a stupid guy. What he’s saying is just so simple, makes so much sense. But I think lots of us just don’t think the same way that you think. Yeah, as I say, it’s massive and when you say it, you can see why it works so well. But a question I’ve got for you, for anyone listening going, “Mads talks a lot of sense.”

Where did you learn your craft?

C: Now I know you look like you’re 75 but you’re a relatively young guy according to the driving license that you showed me. So where did you learn all this stuff? Because obviously you’re mid-thirties and you talk like a … and I don’t mean any disrespect by this but you talk like a guy who’s got so much more experience in the business. I know you’ve come from IBM, which is obviously a massive, massive company. Is that something that they trained you at a very young age? How did you come to understand and learn all this stuff or where does it come from?

M: It’s a longer story but when I was younger my ideal job was to be a computer guy. And what happened was, when I turned 18, I got a job working in Ireland for a company called Xerox. Basically, what happened, within a few months, I got the most amazing manager and probably two to three months my mindset went from I want to be a computer guy to, I want to do what she does kind of thing. To put it politely, I was fed up with school. I’d left the IT education I was in the middle of because I learnt nothing and school is like you have to follow the slowest dude in the class. So it was a total waste of time. But what happened was that, I got this great manager and I basically got super freaking inspired and similar to what a lot of people do with SEO, to be honest.

M: So I literally sat down and I’m like, “I’m not going to school but I want to do this management thing. How do I get there?” And I literally ended up doing a ridiculous amount of self-development. For about 10 years I would read a book a week. I would do all these various online courses. I would find mentors. I would literally walk up to people in the company who were in management and say, “Hey, my shift finishes at 4:00. Can I come and sit and look at what you do an hour or two after work? Just sit and look at what management stuff you do.”

M: So I got totally into management and after a couple of years I managed to move into sort of various management roles. I continued my self-development like crazy, I even paid out of my own pocket to go to various management seminars and stuff. I know, not many people in their twenties do that kind of thing but that was my stuff and that was really what made me tick. That was how I got to where I am.

M: I remember one of the first meetings. I joined IBM in Scotland after about five or six years and I remember one of the management where I’ll sit there, I was probably mid-twenties or so. Everyone else in the room was like in their forties, early fifties and it was an interesting experience, buy yeah. I mean, definitely from my point of view, you learn a lot from working in big corporations because  there’s a lot of people around to manage. There’s a lot of system, there’s a lot of frameworks. So they handle all of that stuff. But honestly, the majority of my knowledge has come from self-development.

M: Just like most SEOs learn SEO. They read some stuff, they do some courses, they test, test, test. That was one of the things. Corporate was for me, it was an amazing test ground for actually testing out some of all this stuff.

Self Development

C: Interesting and it’s obviously interesting that you talk about self-development and it’s obviously something you still do to a certain degree. You’re still at conferences and meet-ups and everything else that obviously you’re not being paid for and obviously it’s all part of a learning experience. I think people don’t fully value the self-development side of things. For me, over the years, and even to this day, I spend tens of thousands of pounds a year going all over the world and learning, and talking to guys like you or Diggity, or any of the other guys over in Asia or guys over in America and it’s constantly developing.

C: Even ticket prices to go to some of these masterminds and stuff, people will go, “Fuck. I’m not paying £1000 to sit with guys in a mastermind.” I keep telling people, “Don’t have that mindset. It’s absolutely ludicrous because you have to invest in yourself.” You’ve probably spent a quarter of a million bucks, if not more, on self-development and it’s obviously paying off. It’s paid off massively for you because you’ve got all these guys now coming to you saying, “Mads, you’re the man. Help me out.” So I think you’re one of those examples where you didn’t go to university to learn this stuff. It’s just a different route and it’s worked out well.

M: Yeah and first of all I’ll say if I’d only spent a quarter of a million I’d be a rich guy right now. But no, totally. I mean one of the things you learn in management and one of the things you learn generally in business is, networking is probably the number one most important thing you do. And for me, people are like, “Oh this conference is shit.” And I’m like, “I’m sure it is and I’m sure there’s some awesome people lurking around.” That’s why I go there. I don’t go necessarily to listen to a bunch of speakers and stuff like that. Sometimes there’s great speakers, don’t get me wrong, but I’m there to meet people. I’m there to network with people, get to know people, because that’s how you build. If I want to build a new company tomorrow, if I had to hire 20 amazing staff tomorrow, I have them in the back of my head. I have them in my network already.

M: This is one of the things. When I work with clients, sometimes … I think it was yesterday or the day before, I was literally sitting in a meeting coaching a client through a full day and he’s like, “Yeah I really need this guy and I really need this guy.” And literally, I would say two phone calls and a little bit later, he had those guys on his team. I know so many people in the industry everywhere and when people are looking for staff, I’m not saying I can always have someone that fits them perfectly, but the whole point is that I built such a big network because whatever you’re trying to achieve, having a huge network just makes that infinitely easier.

Launching a Podcast

M: Like when you’re launching a podcast, having a big network pushing it around, that makes it. If you’re launching a new platform, a new business, whatever, having that network just makes it so much easier and that’s where a lot of SEOs go wrong. They’re sort of sitting at home in their cave, not really talking to anyone and it’s a shame because it’s holding them back. Most SEOs just like, oh well, I want to build this business, I hope to have five staff in five years time. But they’re growing so slow. If you want to see some of the guys that knows the business, they’ll build a 20 people, 40 people agency in a year or two.

M: I’m not saying an agency right or wrong but I’m just saying that when you have the right networks, then even things like getting clients. I probably have five, six referral coming to my inbox every single day because I’ve worked with a lot of people, I know a ton of people and I have so many people popping up in my inbox. And you know what that does? That means I can pick the clients I want to work with and that’s amazing. If most SEO companies had it that way, if they’re not like, “Oh Tom from Tom’s auto trade or whatever is calling. I’ll charge him 500 bucks a month and do some SEO.” And all that crap. They do it because they have no option. No one else is calling them. But the whole point about networking, the point about knowing people is the fact that if you’re a good guy, if you do what you say you’re going to do, people are going to refer you.

M: One of the good examples, Matt put out an article at the end of last year where he said basically pitching my service was the best investment he had done in 2018. I probably got about 100 emails in a very, very short span of time. But again, that happens to other people. Honestly, for the first five years of my business, I didn’t even have a website. I didn’t need it.

C: We met up a few times in Glasgow when you were over here and I noticed that you take the time out to talk to the guys at meet-ups. The guys that are lurking around in the background and stuff, and that’s something that stuck with me. I’m going, “This guy does take time.” And you said it, you’ll take time to go and talk to every single person and people will come away going, “He’s actually a nice guy.” And that works wonders for you as a business. Everywhere I go I hear people saying, “Yeah Mads this, Mads that. Go to Mads for this, go to Mads for that.”

C: And that in itself is going to beat any website that’s out there and the rankings and everything else because as you say, you’re doing what you say you’re going to do and you help people. You’ve helped some of the biggest in the business and stuff like that, and obviously it’s all about networking with those right guys.

C: So obviously all your training, self-development time, networking and everything else clearly works massively. I think, again it comes down to mindset because previously, before I started doing the whole speaking thing and networking, and everything else, was I used to not want to speak to people like you in case you stole my ideas or whatever. I just had this thing where we were all rivals and we don’t network, we don’t go for beers together because you might steal my idea and go and do some lead gen on some roofers website or whatever the hell I would have been doing at that time. So I think you need to quickly snap out of that and we can all make money together and help each other, which I think a lot of people don’t understand.

No magic in SEO

M: Yeah, I totally agree with that. The world is a big place and in SEO particularly, no one has a magic bullet. No one has a magic niche. If you’re good at SEO, you can make money in local, you can make money in global, you can make money in affiliate, whatever. And yeah, I’m not saying show everyone in the whole world your website but the whole thing is, if you want to grow, if you want to learn, if you find some like-minded smart people, you sit down and look at their website and give them some feedback and they look at your stuff and give you some feedback, that’s the best way to learn and grow. Because, fundamentally, we don’t all know everything. I don’t know everything.

M: I need people like Jonathan Kiekbusch for example, who is a very interesting guy. I love talking management with him and I do it not because I fucking know know everything, but because I’m like, “Maybe this guys knows something I don’t. Maybe he have a golden nugget that I don’t have yet.” That’s why I’m keen talking about.

M: Yeah. I think in this industry in particular, you don’t know what you don’t know and you’re always thinking that someone’s got something secret there, and you’re always trying to unravel it, and talk to people and say, “Am I doing everything the wrong way? Id there something I’m … a tool or a …” from an SEO point of view I’m talking about, has this guy got some weird-ass tool that does all this stuff that the magic potion or whatever it’s going to be. You just don’t know where you’re at and that’s the funny thing about this industry. It’s funny that you mentioned Jonathan Kiekbusch. Jonathan Kiekbusch, great guy and stuff but I get the same kind of feeling from guys that I’ve looked at over the years, like Diggity, Matthew Woodward and all that, and you’re going, “Are these guys actually doing something else that I don’t know about?”

C: Yeah, it’s very interesting trying to unravel the mess but I think we’re all doing the same stuff. Maybe a couple of wee tricks here and there we’re missing out on but it’s fun, certainly, picking people’s brains and trying to add that to your repertoire if you like. But over and above the whole management thing, which you clearly do very well, are you still doing the kind of helping people find VAs and all that kind of stuff? Is that still a main focus for you?

M: I started that about seven years ago and what I quickly realized was that a lot of people were not very good at finding staff. So, what I did was I started out an outsourcing company and right now that very much runs without me. So we have about 130 people that work primarily with SEO businesses and e-commerce businesses. We basically help people find amazing staff and then help them staff up because so many people really struggle to find the staff and they really struggle with that sort of foreign culture and so on. So we help with the management and so on, and basically, when people work with us they just need to show people what to do and how to do it. We deal with all the personal stuff. We deal with all the, oh my computer’s not working or my internet is from 1943 and all that sort of stuff.

M: We basically just help them get shipped up. Because for most business owners, they end up spending so much time getting into the nitty-gritty of, oh my Grandma is in hospital and life sucks, all that sort of stuff. Whereas, with the outsourcing business we try and sort of take all that stuff away from the client so they just have to focus on what to do and how to do it. We work with again, a lot of very, very big SEO companies. It’s a good way to get started with outsourcing and it’s a good way to sort of get moving with it.

Interviewing your Virtual Assistants

C: For anyone listening, Mads does actually do the interview process of these VAs and everything. Literally everything is done for you and I think that’s something that maybe you don’t talk about as much, Mads. You kind of downplay it saying, “Yeah come to us and we do this great job.” But I think you undersell. The whole interview process alone, interviewing VAs is probably 10 hours worth of work right there. And you guys are obviously doing that all day every day, and taking that crap away from the business owners.

C: I think it’s a massively valuable service because even things like posting a job on onlinejobs.ph. For a guy in the UK to even start posting a job, it costs you 60 bucks to just join onlinejobs.ph before you even sift through the candidates and talk to people, and all that kind of stuff.

C: You’ve got to value your time wisely as well, as a business owner, and delegate that stuff out as well to people like you who are specialists in finding those people.

M: What most people find frustrating is when they post a job and then they get 35 emails in the mailbox with different resumes and how they’ve helped you compare them and how they helped you figure out who to talk to. Because if you’re going to try and talk to 35 people, that is a lot of time, and scheduling, and planning, and so on.

C: Yeah, it’s just a big fat pain in the ass. But, no it’s good to hear that that’s still going strong as well and obviously I just wanted to point that out to anyone listening. If you are looking to get VAs and stuff that you do have a service that is available to help with that as well. I know a lot of guys over the years have used you for that kind of stuff and speak very highly of it.

Chiang Mai SEO

C: So finally before we go, Chiang Mai SEO, you’re going there again this year? Yeah I’m not going to make it this year sadly but I’m going to have massive fomo. One of the best events out there and not just for the networking, just the whole atmosphere and everything else is something else. I’m going to miss drinking out of your bucket and all the other kind of crazy carry on that’s going on over there. So are you going to the  blowout as well?

M: Actually I have three different clients that are sort of getting their teams together prior to Chiang Mai, so I’m actually going to be very busy working with them before the conference and then I’ll go straight into the conference after that. Doing the conference there’ll always be a bucket.

C: So no buckets this year? Is that what you’re saying?

C: And for anyone who doesn’t know what a bucket is, when I met Mads in Chiang Mai last year he was walking about literally with a white bucket full of vodka, rum, and every other alcoholic drink possibly poured into this one bucket and he was drinking it out of a straw. Mind blowing stuff but it seemed like a lot of fun and tasted like a lot of fun as well. But it’s probably one of the reasons it took me a month to recover after that.

M: One of the key things to me obviously is efficiency and the problem is you have 600 people standing at the bar, it takes a long time to get in there so when you get there, you might as well fill up the bucket.

C: Do you know what? That is another wise move and again, very simple but I didn’t actually think about it that way. I was one of those stupid guys walking backwards and forwards to the bar, fighting and elbows, and all of that kind of stuff, trying to get into the bars there. So another tip that you have that’s ingenious.

C: But, we are sadly out of time Mads. Just quickly before you go, if anyone does want to get a hold of you to talk to you about coaching or anything else that you’ve spoke about, where’s the best place to get a hold of you?

M: Yeah, so my website madssingers.com. Great place to start. The management training is in the tab called management academy and right now there’s actually a bonus where you get the training itself plus a free coaching session for just 997. So that’s a great offer. Then yeah, my email is there as well and basically you can find me on all the social media. So Mads Singers either on Facebook, LinkedIn, whichever tool you like. And I’ll make sure we add everything to the show notes and so on.

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Craig Campbell

I am a Glasgow based SEO expert who has been doing SEO for 18 years.

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