Brazilian & International SEO with Felipe Bazon (Podcast)

Best Brazilian SEO

C: So, on today’s podcast, I am joined by the best Brazilian SEO, Felipe Bazon. Hopefully, I’ve pronounced that properly. I’ve actually never said your surname before. I just call you Felipe with the crazy laugh. But, thank you very much for taking the time to come on to the podcast.

C: It’s always good to have someone from another culture come in, we’re in the same industry, but different levels of competition and stuff. For anyone that doesn’t know you though, Felipe, can you give us a bit of a background of what you do, where you’re based, and all that kind of stuff?

F: Sure, sure. Well, thanks for having me here Craig. You have surprised me when I dropped you the message, and you said, “Oh, yeah. Let’s talk straight away”. So, yeah, first things first, you pronounced my name correctly. It’s Felipe Bazon. Yeah, I’ve been doing SEO for quite some time now. As you guys already know I’m from Brazil, but I’ve learned the trade back in the UK in 2007 when I worked in a small agency called DHUK based in Bedford.

F: Then I did a bit of work for my mum’s house in Spain. So, what I was doing mainly when I started was link building. All back in the glorious days of directory submissions, and article marketing, article spinning. In fact, today, I was talking to Alan, which is the founder of Hedgehog, the company that I’m in today. We were talking about the article robot. So for you guys that are a bit seasoned in the industry, it goes back to before 2010 or before Penguin. You will remember that. Then after that, I made a move back to Brazil, where I was Head of SEO of this agency called SEO Marketing, at the time one of the leading SEO agencies in the country.

F: We used to do a lot of multi-national companies. That was more of a … I became a bit more professional in SEO, if you will. Covering all the areas from link building to technical content, and so on. And back two years ago, I decided to quit that and join Hedgehog, which is the company that DHUK led to it, and the founder Alan and I, we’re business partners. I joined Hedgehog to be head of SEO, to focus in the UK. In the same year, we saw the opportunity, here in the Brazilian market, to come down here and start offering our services as well.

F: So, today I live between the UK, Spain and Brazil, which is where I am at the moment. We just opened the office here in San Paulo. We have been working here for two years now but recently we just opened the office. We were, I used to call it, an agency in the clouds, but now we have a physical operation here with about five people in the staff, a few freelancers. And yeah, this is my background Craig.

International SEO

C: Interesting background. It’s interesting that you have the Brazilian background though, and operate in different countries, even working in Spain. I’m assuming you’ve got a good background in kind of the international markets if you like. Obviously that’s something we want to talk about. It’s something a lot of people don’t talk about. I think Aleyda Solis is one of the ones that talk about it at conferences. What kind of markets are you working in? Do you focus on just Brazil? I know Hedgehog and everything are based in the UK, but primarily, that’s doesn’t mean you have to work in the UK market. You could be doing Scandinavian stuff or whatever it may be. So what markets are you operating in at the moment?

F: Right. Yeah, I joke that if it’s in English, Portuguese, or Spanish we can optimize. We can do SEO for you. So, basically today we are focusing a lot in the Iberian Peninsula, like Portugal and Spain. Then, I would say, the whole of Latin America, with a lot of emphasis on Brazil. We have a couple of clients in Spain, we have one client in Portugal, we have a few clients here in South America like Columbia, and Brazil. Mainly our focus is Brazil where we don’t focus on a specific niche — we just offer a complete SEO suit down here. So, anyone that obviously fits us, and have the budget to work with us, we’ll do the SEO services for them. But mainly, I would say yeah, we do focus a lot on Brazil and outside the UK obviously, and as I said, Europe – Portugal and Spain, which is an interesting scenario.

SEO In Alicante

F: Back in the day I used to live in Spain. I found out last year that there’s a strong SEO community there. Lots of agencies. I met people after events there. So I lived there for about six years doing SEO and didn’t even know they had such a very strong community there. So yeah, found it very amusing that years afterwards, I found out that the area that I used to live in … what a coincidence isn’t it?

C: I’m not even going to assume because I know the answer to this before I even ask it. It’s going to sound daft but obviously the Brazilian guys speak Portuguese but Spanish is a completely different language altogether. Are you fluent in Spanish as well?

F: Yes. It’s a totally different language and if I may compliment on that, there is a difference between Portuguese from Portugal and Portuguese from Brazil and there are certain nuances in the language that’s different, like grammatically. It’s, I would say, 90% the same but it’s more or less like English and British, slightly different. Spanish is a totally different beast and especially when you look, not just from comparing Portuguese with Spanish, that’s obviously totally different, but when you look into doing SEO for instance, or just content if you will, for Spain and for Latin America, each specific country you need to understand. You need to have a native writer there. People that know the differences of the language because it’s all bundled up here down in South America. But if you move from Peru, to Chile, to Argentina, to Columbia, there are differences in the language. There are differentiators that you need to understand to work, do content that is well optimized for them and that will resonate with their audience.

F: But yeah, this I find most amusing. It’s most of our challenge as we expand to all these countries. Finding people that could be native. I’m a native speaker of Spanish, and English and Portuguese obviously. But yeah, every time we explore we start doing the business for a different country, I always look for someone that’s native because it’s different. In Spain, I’m totally covered but as I’m down here, funny enough I need to find specific people because there are differences in the language.

C: Yeah. So how does that, the differences in the language then, transfer into SEO? Are there problems with that or is that quite an easy fix? Just simply going in and changing. Or do these things have to be completely re-written? Especially the kind of Brazilian Portuguese and the Brazilian Brazil side of things. Is it just a couple of tweaks here and there or is it, have to be completely re-written?

F: Well, from Google’s standpoint let’s say, it doesn’t have to be re-written. The content that I produce here will rank well in Portugal and say the content that you produce for Spanish or Spain, will rank well in South American countries, Latin America countries. You know Vitor from Rock Content, yeah?

F: Funny enough, the other day, a couple of years ago actually, I was invited to speak at this event in Madrid, called OMExbo, about e-commerce and all. As I got there, I said, “I need to translate my presentation to Spanish obviously just to be more friendly.” And I started doing some research on what SEO and stuff in Spain. All of a sudden I saw this website called Marketing de contenidos. I said, “This sounds familiar.” And as I got in and started looking at the content. I downloaded an e-book from then and then, boom. I saw Rock Content and I pick up the phone, or actually the Facebook message. I said, “Vitor, are you guys doing anything here in Spain?” He said, “No I’m not doing anything in Spain and we just expanded to Mexico.” I said, “Do you know you’re ranking first for everything here in Spain?”

F: So, to answer your question, it does work for Google. You don’t really need to re-write it. But from a user standpoint, if you want to kind of resonate with the Spanish audience, you have to have those nuances of the language that the Spanish people are used to. Then you go to Mexico, similar, and so on. So, if you’re really thinking about user point of view together with Google, you need to be specific to each country. But if it’s like a broad strategy, you don’t really need to re-write things. What you write for Spain will work in Mexico, and so on.

Differences in International SEO

C: What are the kind of common mistakes for people who go from doing kind of local SEO to doing international SEO? What are the main differences? I know there’s going to be a lot of different things but what are the main changes that you would make from someone going from local to international? It’s never going to be that easy. A lot of people think you can just toss out any old website and hope for the best and different countries. There’s a lot more to it than that. But just in kind of a briefer way, what are the main pain points?

F: Well, I would say, I would divide that into two segments. Well, I assume that people who listen to your podcast are like seasoned SEOs or even if they’re for the non-savvy ones. I’d say from the teaching standpoint, you need to work out if your signal’s right. Like if site maps is specific to each language and so on. But that is just like, I would say, the tip of the iceberg because what you really need to focus on, it’s only local signals. What I mean by that, you need to position your brand in that area. It’s not simply Google index it and I’m fine with it. I think people kind of like, when they expand, they forget that it’s not just the websites, not just the technicalities of it. You need to think about how you position your brand in that country.

F: What you’re doing, not just from a content point of view but also from building the authority and the trustworthiness of your presence in those areas. And I found that a lot of people that try to expand to other countries, they don’t really focus on that. They just kind of like, “Oh yeah I’m just going to translate my website, and I’m just going to index it and see if it works.” No, it’s not like that and I’m just going to build a few links. You need to kind of … I find it that Google is really looking into those signal nowadays.

F: I’ll give you an example. The website for Google Brazil, if you will, Hedgehog is rather new. So, we still don’t have that massive ranking because we’re still building the reputation down here. From events to social media, or giving all the signals to Google. So I’d say people kind of fail in their understanding that it’s not just about, oh I’m going to internationalize my website, translate it and let Google index it, and I’m fine. So they forget about the most important bit, which is the brand. That’s where I find that most people make a mistake.

Should I use a country Specific Domain?

C: Yeah. I think obviously there’s always going to be flaws. Whether it’s a site migration or whether you jump over to targeting international countries and stuff like that. I hear of a lot of small companies who start off, for example, in the UK and then they want to branch out into the kind of Spanish market and the French market, just as an example. You hear people saying, “Get the .fr and the .es domain name and launch separate websites on there.” And then you’ve got other people who’ll argue to keep it on the main domain name and just do forward-slash EN or whatever the tags are, or FR, or whatever it may be. What would your advice be to someone on that? What is the best way to expand out into the international market?

F: Well, I would say from experience, working with international brands such as Weight Watchers, I say the top-level domain still performs better. It’s not just a finger in the air kind of opinion. Obviously we have companies that we monitor, like Salesforce and others, that have international websites and they use the .com and then the sub-directory of the language they’re looking for, and they do a good job. But, we have clients on both sides of the spectrum here and the ones that use TLDs, like top-level domains, .com, .co, .br tend to perform better. So, we look at that, I would recommend that you go with top-level domains. It might be a bit more costly but the benefits from a Google SEO standpoint, an SEO one actually, I would say top-level domains are the best.

F: I always look at the top-notch guys. Amazon, what do they do? .co.uk, .com. If they’re doing that, you know. They rely a lot on SEO don’t they? Or organic. So, yeah. I know it might not be the best example but I like to base not just on that, but from experience I would say TLDs all the way.

C: Yeah. I think for me if I was being faced with the question, you’ve got to look at the bigger players in the market. They’re not going to be messing about. If they think that using the top-level TLDs is the way forward, then, of course, Amazon is going to be, hopefully seeking the right advice and getting the right advice from the right professional people. I think it’s not always a bad thing to be looking at the bigger players in the worldwide markets.

C: I think, that would be the answer I would like to go for but you always hear conflicting information on that subject. People do have good examples of doing it the other way as well and it’s hard to argue when someone has also got success doing it another way as well. But I just wanted to get your input on that. In terms of international SEO though, here are some of the findings that I’ve got. So obviously in the UK, for example, Google are very on the ball, they’re looking for spammers, they’re looking to catch out people who are doing maybe things that they shouldn’t be doing, and for example in the likes of Poland, you can get away with a hell of a lot more spam tactics than you would in the UK. How does that translate into international SEO? What kind of guidelines do you follow? Can you push the boundaries a wee bit more in international SEO or do you still take the same precautions as you maybe would in the UK or the US?

Is Brazil SEO more competitive than UK or US SEO?

F: Well I always find myself in the discussion when I’m talking from someone from the UK and the US. I had the same discussion with Judith Lewis the other day. For us, it’s the same. I’d say Brazil is in the same spectrum of the UK and the US. All the shady tactics that kind of could get you in trouble up there will work here as well. I’m seeing that, since I operate in both, let’s say, countries, I see when they roll out the updates. It’s fastly getting Brazil now as opposed to before it used to take quite some time. Like this core update that’s happening, slowly rolling out. Sometimes they don’t even affect us, but they do seem to act quicker than before.

F: But to answer your question more precisely, what you guys can’t do there, we cannot do here either. So with shady tactics we cannot push the boundaries as much as in Poland. And I say that, not just from Brazil, from Latin America and Spain as well. And to be very, very honest it’s not my style to keep pushing the boundaries too much. Since I work most of my SEO life, let’s say, with clients, I cannot keep trying to do things that could get them into trouble. So I try to be as inside the line as possible.

F: But, I have friends that do work with monetization and so on. There’s a big community here of affiliate marketers in Brazil. Yeah, they keep pushing the boundaries and the same penalty that you guys get, they get here. So I would say, in this spectrum here, it works the same. It’s not different. What happens up there for you guys, Google is as rigorous as up there, I’d say.

C: I was just curious to know because, as I say, I’ve never personally worked in your space, in Brazil, so I was just curious to know if it was seen to be easier. I mean, would you say that the level of competition in Brazil is equally as strong as the UK and the US as well, in terms of SEO knowledge, SEO experience, the aggression with link building and all of that kind of stuff, is it all equally as competitive there than it is potentially here?

F: No, that is definitely not. The UK and US are a different ball game. I like it because it pushes me to try and elevate the level to work in the UK and it’s a big competitor advantage for us down here in Brazil. So, I’m always like competing with you guys, more seasoned SEOs, if you will. I learn a lot and I bring it over here, so I have a competitor advantage. You said about link building, that is one of the areas that I found that people are still very behind down here. They’re still relying a lot on guest blogging and not putting very strong link building campaigns up. I’m not going to even go down the road what link works and what doesn’t but I found it that they just focus on one thing. They’re not thinking outside the box and doing creative campaigns like we see a lot in the UK, companies doing that from a different kind of perspective, like more of a digital PR. A link earning point of view, not a link building. So, that’s a huge difference.

F: I would say another point, technical as well. Technical SEO, you’ve got some good guys in Europe and in the US, and in Brazil the majority of the industry is still a little bit behind. I wouldn’t say too much but there is a difference between working in the UK with more seasoned, with more experienced … it’s a more experienced industry than opposed to Brazil. So yeah, there’s a difference there, definitely.

French SEO

C: I think I was in France, speaking at an event, earlier on in the year and there was guys that were selling links on the kind of stalls that get or the kind of stands round about the event. Me and a friend were speaking to someone who was selling links, and we spoke to them and they were still selling links from old newspaper articles and stuff, and charging $1500 for it. And we were like, “This is really bad link building if that’s all you’re doing over here in France.” So I was curious to know, as I say, it’s always fact-finding and getting information. I think a lot of people are actually behind in terms of the kind of advanced stuff, such as link building.

C: Whereas, everyone in the UK, as you know, and probably in a lot of other countries, are looking for every way to break the system, and rank well and do things easy, and span, and all of that kind of stuff. I do affiliate marketing and obviously push the boundaries to a fairly decent level where I can. Obviously I wouldn’t do that for a client but when it’s your own neck that’s on the line and stuff like that, then I don’t feel there’s too much of a problem with pushing the boundaries in that respect.

C: So what sort of things are working well in Brazil? Is it just on-page site speed, all the usual stuff or is the Brazilian algorithm not even as up to date as that either? How advanced do you have to be to rank in Brazil?

Advanced SEO in Brazil

F: Well, I would say you have to be pretty advanced because you do really need … just the content won’t cut it — there’s a lot of people doing good stuff down here on the content side of things. And as I said, where they lack the experience and they don’t do a good job, is with links. So what’s really making a difference for us here, it’s working with a different approach to link building. So we don’t ask for links anymore, we just attract them. Obviously we do approach the publishers and the big news portals here in Brazil but that is, I would say, what you need to do. Just good content and good performance and a good experience will not cut it. You do still need the links. Yeah, I would say, which doesn’t differentiate too much from the UK and the US. You need good content, you need a good website, performing well, good experience but, what makes a difference between, say, middle or first base, top three is continuing to build the links.

F: Yeah, I would say, you do really need those heavy weight links and this is what we have been kind of like focusing down here. I’m avoiding as much I can, guest blogging and I’m not going to lie that I still don’t do it. Obviously I do it because it has its value, but you just need to be a bit more thorough in the analysis of what blogs you should be doing for your clients. But we’re really going after building links with news outlets, big news reporters and all because I remember, I think Ross told me once that … actually I saw an article that he wrote, I can’t remember to where. Where he says, “the editorial industry, the publishing industry, it’s kind of like broke. They really need content. They are eager for that.” And that kind of stuck in my brain, and this is what I use. We’re approaching the news outlets, news portals here in Brazil with that approach. I produce a content that will give you page views, that will give you interactions, and obviously I want that link. This is what we have been focusing on and this is the differentiator here. This is how advanced you need to be to get to the top, I’d say.

C: In terms of out with how competitive it is and the strategies that are involved with ranking a website, in terms of monetization, I’m guessing that there’s as much money to be made in Brazil by ranking well online. In my experience, and I’m again not talking about Brazil specifically, but there are so many opportunities where I feel that people obsess over the UK and the US, and don’t look at opportunities. So for example, the UK has around about 62 million people that stay in the UK, and is ultra-competitive. Everyone’s an SEO and everyone’s fighting for every last bit of money there is. Where a country like Germany, for example, has 85 million people all searching stuff and it’s less competitive in my opinion. It would make perfect sense to stop obsessing over the UK and rank well in Germany and stuff like that. I know lots of people are currently doing that and I’m just curious to know, is that the same in Brazil, where there’s still a lot of money to be made and it’s just an untapped market?

F: Definitely, definitely. You just gave us some figures of the whole population of those countries, yeah, UK and Germany. 66 and 85 I think. Brazil, online we have 110 million, online.

F: So yeah, almost double the UK. 20% more than the whole population of Germany. So we have about, I think the last census was 200 million people in Brazil. 110 online, yeah. So it’s a lot of people. There is an opportunity to grow here. We’re not going for an economic crisis but we’re in a recession, let’s say, and the only area of the economy that has grown two digits year over year for the past 10 years is digital marketing and e-commerce. So more and more people are getting online and there are a lot of opportunities. I know a guy that you like, that is making quite a bit of money down here, which saw this opportunity I would say five years ago. It’s Neil Patel. He’s got a bit of a reputation but he’s still making a lot. He’s dominating kind of like rankings and he’s soaring.

F: As I said, as you asked, there is opportunity for more people to come down here. I shouldn’t be inviting you guys but answering your question, yes, there is an opportunity. It is, I wouldn’t say an untapped market because there is competition, it’s not going to be easy for you guys if you come down here, but obviously there are opportunities. 110 million people online and growing. Yeah, definitely.

Neil Patel Brazil SEO

C: That’s amazing. I didn’t realize Brazil had as many people. I know it’s a fairly big place in the grand scheme of things compared to the UK in terms of the size on the map but 110 million people is a hell of a lot of people to be able to market to. I think actually, I’ve heard, I think it was Vitor who told me previously that Neil Patel was doing stuff in Brazil. So it’s obviously interesting to hear that even guys like Neil Patel are always looking for opportunities to make money in other countries, and expand, and take advantage of maybe slightly less competition if you like.

C: But, I think that’s the same across the board. Not necessarily just targeting Brazil, I think there are so many other opportunities in terms of back in the EU, like Scandinavia and stuff like that, the SEO’s certainly not as hot as it is in the UK and the US.

Do you need to stay in Brazil to get a Brazilian Domain Name?

C: So I think that if people put their mind to it, there are opportunities to make money online because I often hear guys coming into the industry and saying, “I’m so far behind, I can’t possibly start a business in this niche because there’s so much competition.” And I’m like, “That’s the wrong thought process.” All you need to do is find a niche, a product, a service in a country that … no-one’s dominating the whole world out there yet. And that may change in 20 years time or something, but I think there’s a lot of untapped opportunities.

C:  It’s great to hear that Brazil’s … I know you don’t want to hear that but it’s great to hear Brazil is another one of those opportunities for anyone wanting to do anything. I know the likes of certain countries, for example, Australia and stuff like that, you actually have to have residential status there before you can get an Australian domain name and stuff like that. Is that similar in Brazil as well?

F: Nowadays, not so much because you can get some domains through GoDaddy now. So, you don’t really need to be a resident in Brazil because last time I checked, they were selling .com.br domains. But again, that’s easily worked around. Brazil, is one of the flaws that we have. We have too many breaches in the law. There is always another way of doing things. Well, I shouldn’t be saying that here but that’s the reality of our country. Unfortunately, that’s why we have so much corruption because there is always a way of doing things here. We call it the Brazilian way. There is always the Brazilian way of doing things.

C: Maybe that’s why I’ve always had a strong love for Brazil. Although I’ve never been, I’ve always liked Brazilian footballers. Ronaldinho is my idol. I like you, Vitor, they’re always characters and I’ve watched a lot of stuff about Brazil on the telly about the favelas and all of that kind of stuff. But I think corruption is not always a bad thing. To a certain degree. If there’s another way of doing things, then … I don’t like things that are too rigid and locked down, where you can’t get into a specific niche because no one will sell you a domain name and whatever. But, yeah it’s nice to hear that Brazil, as long as you know a guy, things can happen. So, it’s also another thing. I’ll need to do research in a Brazilian market now, but you can sort me out with whatever I need.

F: Definitely, definitely.

Gambling SEO Brazil

Gambling market

C: What kind of things in the Brazilian market are big? I know that’s going to be that it depends on what you like but is it the same kind of niches here or is there anything obscure over there that’s really big? I know certain countries have different things they look at and stuff, but what’s big? Is it gambling over there or is it shopping? I’m not saying tell us a niche down to selling kitchen utensils or something but what are the big niches over there? What is big and hot at the moment?

F: I would say gambling. It’s fairly new down here. Well, obviously people know about gambling but a lot of the law has changed, so now websites of the likes like Bet365 and others, it’s a big boom down here and I would say it’s the untapped niche domain. A lot of people are getting into it and it’s becoming a fever down here, and these companies are coming strong from let’s say from an advertising point of view.

F: But I’m not seeing people really pushing that online. So I would say definitely gambling is the niche to exploit down here online. It’s a big, big market. Well, it’s always been illegal to gamble in Brazil but now it’s becoming legal. But as I said, there was always the gambling, the illegal gambling. There is this game, this lottery here in Brazil, that’s related to animals. So each animal is a name and they run this every day, so it’s massive. It’s obviously illegal but it’s massive. In Rio, Sao Paulo, all these money finances the drug trafficking and all.

F: But, what I’m saying is, Brazil likes gambling. They have always been doing that and now it’s becoming legal and it’s become a huge industry here. So definitely online, a niche to exploit here and I don’t see anybody doing so.

C: Yeah. I was curious because I was at an event in Poland last month and they were saying it’s illegal, totally illegal to promote gambling and be a gambling person in Poland. Obviously there’s always going to be ways around that, but yeah I was just curious since it’s obviously an interesting niche to know if that was something that was a viable option in Brazil. So anyone looking to do affiliate, Brazilian gambling is there and waiting to be taken advantage of, if you like. But nah, we’ll leave that for you Felipe.

C: So I know you’re doing your Hedgehog digital stuff, do you do any kind of affiliate stuff on the side or is it all strictly working for clients?

F: No, I don’t do it and I never did, mainly doing work for clients. Recently I started my own blog, after 10 years of SEO I finally put my blog up, putting a YouTube channel on, but I’m not really thinking about monetizing just yet. So as an affiliate, no, I’ve never done it. It’s not on the horizon for me to do so as well. So yeah, I follow up everything that’s happening in the industry but I really don’t have the time to get into it. I should but I don’t, that’s the truth.

C: At least it’s an honest answer as well. I think time is of the essence and especially if you’re not operating some small agency, you’re in Brazil and there’s offices in the UK and stuff. So it’s not as if it’s a small thing. I’m assuming your agency is doing very well and you’re scaling up and expanding, which is good to hear. But yeah, I get it, it’s not easy to then also dive into affiliate. It’s not the easiest thing in the world to do.

F: Yeah. Time is something that’s very crucial for me nowadays. When I’m in Brazil, for instance, I wake up at 5AM because of the office in the UK and I go to about six, seven in the night, here in the evening, here in Brazil, so long days. I wouldn’t even have time to do it. I have to be very selective in what I’m doing. It’s mainly as you said, focusing on the development of Hedgehog internationally. I would love to do so, have something that I just see oh, there’s money coming in. Money, money but unfortunately not right now.

C: Yeah. No, there’s always time. You’re still young enough to capitalize on all of that in the future. But sadly, Felipe, we are out of time. We have spoke for 40 minutes, which is probably about the optimal time for anyone listening. Hopefully anyone listening enjoyed what you had to say, and finding out about the kind of markets that you operate in. If anyone’s looking to get a hold of you, where’s the best place they can find you?

F: Well they can find me on Twitter at SEOBazon. It’s S-E-O-B-A-Z-O-N. Or on LinkedIn as well. So I’m more active on those two channels so feel free to reach out to me there, exchange knowledge if you want to look into the Brazilian market, more than welcome to tell you the Brazilian way of doing things. Just a little spoiler alert Craig, you said you’ve never been to Brazil. There is an SEO conference on the horizon that’s shaping up towards next year. So, you might get an invite for that one if you are up for it.

C: I’d love to. I’d love to.

F: It’s still early days but it’s taking shape.

C: I’d be more than happy to come out and see what’s going on over there and getting to explore another country. So count me in if the dates are suitable, then I’m there.

F: We’ll talk more about it.

C: Thanks again for taking the time to come on. It’s been a pleasure and hopefully we’ll bump into at some point in the near future.

F: Sure, definitely. Thanks for having me here again.

C: No worries.

F: It was a pleasure.

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Craig Campbell

I am a Glasgow based SEO expert who has been doing SEO for 18 years.

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